Cyber Crime Convention

by on August 3, 2006 · 18 comments

EFF highlights a very bad treaty being pushed for ratification in the Senate:

The Convention on Cybercrime is a sweeping treaty that has been waiting in the wings of the Senate for nearly three years. Now the administration is putting pressure on the Senate to ratify it in the next two days. If it does, it would mean the U.S. would enforce not just our own, but the rest of the world’s bad Net laws. Call your Senator now, and ask them to hold its ratification. The treaty requires that the U.S. government help enforce other countries’ “cybercrime” laws – even if the act being prosecuted is not illegal in the United States. That means that countries that have laws limiting free speech on the Net could oblige the F.B.I. to uncover the identities of anonymous U.S. critics, or monitor their communications on behalf of foreign governments. American ISPs would be obliged to obey other jurisdiction’s requests to log their users’ behavior without due process, or compensation.

Apparently, the treaty is being held up by an anonymous Republican Senator:

As written, it could require more surveillance on Americans who have been accused of violating the laws of foreign countries–even if they haven’t violated U.S. law. Treaty cheerleaders paint menacing pictures of hackers and child pornographers. But in reality the Convention is drafted so broadly that it encompasses virtually every area of law where the possibility exists of computerized evidence. That could affect thousands of innocent people, including not only political dissidents, but also the politically incorrect. Fortunately, one heroic, albeit currently anonymous, conservative senator has placed a “hold” on this Cybercrime Convention, a procedural maneuver that prevents an immediate, unannounced vote on the floor of the whole Senate. Conservatives concerned with sovereignty and the Bill of Rights need to both become aware and raise others’ awareness of the dangers posed by the Cybercrime Treaty, lest the Senate acquiesce in this subjugation of Americans to European-style “hate speech” laws through an electronic back door.

I really wish Democrats would be more consistent in support of civil liberties on issues like this. It takes 2/3 of the Senate to ratify a treaty like this. I’d think it would be a no-brainer for Democrats to oppose a treaty that opens up such a huge loopholes for censorship and privacy violations. Yet if thist story is correct, the only guy who’s bothered by the idea has an “R” by his name.

  • http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com MikeT

    Lugar is a very evil man. He has pushed for every internationalist treaty like this, and this is precisely what he and his globalist ilk want. They want a sterile, singapore-like world that is highly productive, clean and rigidly conformist.

    Coming on the heels of the SPP initiative, why is anyone surprised? The Republican leadership is the Democratic Party that the Republican base fears would be elected.

  • http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com MikeT

    Lugar is a very evil man. He has pushed for every internationalist treaty like this, and this is precisely what he and his globalist ilk want. They want a sterile, singapore-like world that is highly productive, clean and rigidly conformist.


    Coming on the heels of the SPP initiative, why is anyone surprised? The Republican leadership is the Democratic Party that the Republican base fears would be elected.

  • pmp777

    Look out MikeT! Those black helicopters are gonna getcha!

    OK, it’s not (quite) clear from your post whether you’re one of those paranoid whackjobs who rant about the impending one world government, but it’s disappointing to see both Tim and Declan McCullagh so uncritically passing along the comments of such a whackjob (James Plummer at Human Events (in the second link above). Tim, I think Stoller’s criticism of your op-ed (excerpts of which you posted yesterday) was unfair, but part of why I thought it was unfair was that it attacked you based on some misleading assertions about your associations, without ever addressing the merits of your arguments. And that seems to be what’s going on here. I’d love to see some critical analysis of why you think the Cybercrime Convention is so bad. But repeating third-hand complaints from some nut at Human Events doesn’t help elucidate. If I want crazy talk, I can find it in blog comments — you on the other hand, can do better.

  • http://www.techliberation.com/ Tim Lee

    pmp777, that’s a fair point–I didn’t do any in-depth research into the treaty before posting this entry. I don’t know if James Plummer is a “whackjob,” but I’m pretty sure that Danny O’Brien, who linked to Plummer’s comments, is not. If EFF says a treaty is a threat to civil liberties, I’m willing to believe it.

    In any event, it’s a moot point given that the Senate apparently ratified the treaty in the dead of night last night. Interestingly, another non-whackjob outlet, the Los Angeles Times says that among the objects of the treaty is targetting “the distribution of racist material.” As a supporter of the First Amendment, that doesn’t exactly warm my heart.

  • http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com MikeT

    PMP, laugh all you want, but the goal of people like Lugar is to diminish the power of the nation-state in favor of international bodies. He also supports the Law of the Sea Treaty, a treaty that would give some autonomous governmental power to the United Nations. It would be able to levy regulatory access fees on mineral deposits on the ocean floor. Effectively, giving the UN its first power to levy a tax.

    You should look at the SPP that has been one of Bush’s pet projects if you haven’t already. This, not wild conspiracy theories, is how a one world government will come about. It’ll come about through transfering power away from nation states toward transnational bodies like the WTO, WIPO, European Union and SPP.

  • http://lippard.blogspot.com/ Jim Lippard

    Having reviewed the treaty, it appears to me that mutual assistance is only mandatory for the types of crimes listed in article 1-11. Those are all genuine computer crimes–intrusion, data destruction, denial of service, child pornography, and copyright infringement (with specific reference to copyright treaties that have already been in effect in the U.S. for some time).

    Does anyone see how this could actually be used for abusive cases that have been brought up by EFF and the ACLU, e.g., obtaining the identity of someone discussing Holocaust denial, or intercepting data to and from someone who is selling Nazi memorabilia in violation of French law? If it could be used for those things, wouldn’t other countries be worried that it could be abused by the U.S. to go after online gambling?

  • pmp777

    Look out MikeT! Those black helicopters are gonna getcha!

    OK, it’s not (quite) clear from your post whether you’re one of those paranoid whackjobs who rant about the impending one world government, but it’s disappointing to see both Tim and Declan McCullagh so uncritically passing along the comments of such a whackjob (James Plummer at Human Events (in the second link above). Tim, I think Stoller’s criticism of your op-ed (excerpts of which you posted yesterday) was unfair, but part of why I thought it was unfair was that it attacked you based on some misleading assertions about your associations, without ever addressing the merits of your arguments. And that seems to be what’s going on here. I’d love to see some critical analysis of why you think the Cybercrime Convention is so bad. But repeating third-hand complaints from some nut at Human Events doesn’t help elucidate. If I want crazy talk, I can find it in blog comments — you on the other hand, can do better.

  • pmp777

    Tim – I agree with you on O’Brien (he’s not a nutjob), but I disagree with O’Brien in this case. I’m not surprised by EFF’s opposition, but I’m a bit surprised by its tone, and I’m disappointed that that sharp group of lawyers hasn’t done more to actually read and analyze the convention itself (as opposed to the “trust us, it’s bad” rhetoric). One cannot reasonably characterize the convention as the “World’s Worst Internet Laws.” Hell, there must be 2 or 3 up on the Hill at this very minute that beat the pants off the rather innocuous cybercrime convention.

    Jim – I actually believe the treaty goes farther than that — the mutual cooperation obligation extends not just to the offenses listed in the first 11 articles (which I agree are generally too controversial), but also to other crimes involving electronic evidence. See Article 25: “The Parties shall afford one another mutual assistance to the widest extent possible for the purpose of investigations or proceedings concerning criminal offences related to computer systems and data, or for the collection of evidence in electronic form of a criminal offence.”

    As for how these information sharing bits could be abused, despite what EFF and ACLU’s scenarios suggest, Articles 25-27 limit the obligation to share information. Parties can refuse to provide information if: a the request concerns an offence which the requested Party considers a political offence or an offence connected with a political offence; or

    b the requested Party considers that execution of the request is likely to prejudice its sovereignty, security, ordre public or other essential interests. Art.27(4).

    Oh, and the LA Times article? I saw that too, and I agree, it is disturbing to read about anti-free expression regulations. Unfortunately, the LAT article seems to be just sloppy reporting (although I’ve heard other groups repeat the same issue). The racist speech provision is a separate protocol to the convention, and one that the US refused to sign onto, so the ratification of the convention wouldn’t mean the US would have to impose Euro-style speech codes, or help them enforce theirs. (And a good thing, too.)

    MikeT – I will continue to laugh all I want (at least until the UN stormtroppers swoop down to make me stop). As for the other stuff you said … you lost me at “one world government.”

  • http://www.techliberation.com/ Tim Lee

    pmp777, that’s a fair point–I didn’t do any in-depth research into the treaty before posting this entry. I don’t know if James Plummer is a “whackjob,” but I’m pretty sure that Danny O’Brien, who linked to Plummer’s comments, is not. If EFF says a treaty is a threat to civil liberties, I’m willing to believe it.

    In any event, it’s a moot point given that the Senate apparently ratified the treaty in the dead of night last night. Interestingly, another non-whackjob outlet, the Los Angeles Times says that among the objects of the treaty is targetting “the distribution of racist material.” As a supporter of the First Amendment, that doesn’t exactly warm my heart.

  • http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com MikeT

    PMP, laugh all you want, but the goal of people like Lugar is to diminish the power of the nation-state in favor of international bodies. He also supports the Law of the Sea Treaty, a treaty that would give some autonomous governmental power to the United Nations. It would be able to levy regulatory access fees on mineral deposits on the ocean floor. Effectively, giving the UN its first power to levy a tax.


    You should look at the SPP that has been one of Bush’s pet projects if you haven’t already. This, not wild conspiracy theories, is how a one world government will come about. It’ll come about through transfering power away from nation states toward transnational bodies like the WTO, WIPO, European Union and SPP.

  • http://lippard.blogspot.com/ Jim Lippard

    Having reviewed the treaty, it appears to me that mutual assistance is only mandatory for the types of crimes listed in article 1-11. Those are all genuine computer crimes–intrusion, data destruction, denial of service, child pornography, and copyright infringement (with specific reference to copyright treaties that have already been in effect in the U.S. for some time).

    Does anyone see how this could actually be used for abusive cases that have been brought up by EFF and the ACLU, e.g., obtaining the identity of someone discussing Holocaust denial, or intercepting data to and from someone who is selling Nazi memorabilia in violation of French law? If it could be used for those things, wouldn’t other countries be worried that it could be abused by the U.S. to go after online gambling?

  • pmp777

    Tim – I agree with you on O’Brien (he’s not a nutjob), but I disagree with O’Brien in this case. I’m not surprised by EFF’s opposition, but I’m a bit surprised by its tone, and I’m disappointed that that sharp group of lawyers hasn’t done more to actually read and analyze the convention itself (as opposed to the “trust us, it’s bad” rhetoric). One cannot reasonably characterize the convention as the “World’s Worst Internet Laws.” Hell, there must be 2 or 3 up on the Hill at this very minute that beat the pants off the rather innocuous cybercrime convention.

    Jim – I actually believe the treaty goes farther than that — the mutual cooperation obligation extends not just to the offenses listed in the first 11 articles (which I agree are generally too controversial), but also to other crimes involving electronic evidence. See Article 25:
    “The Parties shall afford one another mutual assistance to the widest extent possible for the purpose of investigations or proceedings concerning criminal offences related to computer systems and data, or for the collection of evidence in electronic form of a criminal offence.”

    As for how these information sharing bits could be abused, despite what EFF and ACLU’s scenarios suggest, Articles 25-27 limit the obligation to share information. Parties can refuse to provide information if:
    a the request concerns an offence which the requested Party considers a political offence or an offence connected with a political offence; or

    b the requested Party considers that execution of the request is likely to prejudice its sovereignty, security, ordre public or other essential interests.
    Art.27(4).

    Oh, and the LA Times article? I saw that too, and I agree, it is disturbing to read about anti-free expression regulations. Unfortunately, the LAT article seems to be just sloppy reporting (although I’ve heard other groups repeat the same issue). The racist speech provision is a separate protocol to the convention, and one that the US refused to sign onto, so the ratification of the convention wouldn’t mean the US would have to impose Euro-style speech codes, or help them enforce theirs. (And a good thing, too.)

    MikeT – I will continue to laugh all I want (at least until the UN stormtroppers swoop down to make me stop). As for the other stuff you said … you lost me at “one world government.”

  • eric

    I object on principle. Anything that obligates our law enforcement to investigate foreign crimes is by definition a loss of sovereignty.

  • eric

    I object on principle. Anything that obligates our law enforcement to investigate foreign crimes is by definition a loss of sovereignty.

  • http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com MikeT

    PMP, I feel sorry for you if you get lost so easily. So, why don’t you actually prove me wrong instead of relying on childish, emotion-based retorts? If you are correct, then it shouldn’t be that hard to disprove what I have said.

    What I have pointed to is a historical trend that is very obvious if you look past a generation. Start with the international state in 1900 and juxtapose it with today. The nation state today is a far weaker creature than it was back then. International bodies, what one might intelligently discern as the organs of an embryonic government, have filled in the vacuum. The vacuum was not huge early on, but it is growing.

    Your kind always calls people like me “whacko” and “nutjob.” In 1939, your kind was calling people insane for thinking that Hitler would start a war. Germany was too weak and it was “just preposterous” that they would do it! Now look who’s laughing. In politics and history, the cynic with a longterm view of things never loses a bet.

  • http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com MikeT

    PMP, I feel sorry for you if you get lost so easily. So, why don’t you actually prove me wrong instead of relying on childish, emotion-based retorts? If you are correct, then it shouldn’t be that hard to disprove what I have said.


    What I have pointed to is a historical trend that is very obvious if you look past a generation. Start with the international state in 1900 and juxtapose it with today. The nation state today is a far weaker creature than it was back then. International bodies, what one might intelligently discern as the organs of an embryonic government, have filled in the vacuum. The vacuum was not huge early on, but it is growing.


    Your kind always calls people like me “whacko” and “nutjob.” In 1939, your kind was calling people insane for thinking that Hitler would start a war. Germany was too weak and it was “just preposterous” that they would do it! Now look who’s laughing. In politics and history, the cynic with a longterm view of things never loses a bet.

  • http://lippard.blogspot.com/ Jim Lippard

    Eric:

    I disagree, with respect to computer-related crimes (system compromises, denial of service, etc.). If we don’t help them, they don’t help us, and then U.S. law enforcement remains hobbled in going after crimes against U.S. citizens over the Internet by miscreants in foreign countries (of the sort that are occurring daily).

  • http://lippard.blogspot.com/ Jim Lippard

    Eric:

    I disagree, with respect to computer-related crimes (system compromises, denial of service, etc.). If we don’t help them, they don’t help us, and then U.S. law enforcement remains hobbled in going after crimes against U.S. citizens over the Internet by miscreants in foreign countries (of the sort that are occurring daily).

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