More, and More on IP and Physical Property

by Solveig Singleton on February 21, 2006 · View Comments

Here’s a few thoughts on Jim Harper’s splendid post of a few days ago on the nature and origins of IP as compared to physical property. I can’t find much to disagree with in it, but apparently I was expected to? So I will clarify where I think points of controversy might arise starting off from there.

A) One of the assertions that seems to be made with some frequency about the enterprise at IPcentral of which I am a part is that we think that IP and physical property are just the same. As far as I know, neither myself nor any of my colleagues think that (I don’t speak for them ordinarily but I think I can safely venture to do so on this point). But we’ll tend to emphasize the similarities rather than the differences when we think the differences are not as relevant as they are sometimes thought to be:

An example: It is sometimes pointed out that the marginal cost of sharing IP is zero or nearly zero. This is sometimes taken as an argument by people who know a little economics (and no Austrian economics) that this is what the price of IP should be as well–zero or nearly zero. But the argument proves too much; it turns into an attack on physical property as well. The marginal cost of an alarming amount of *phsyical property* is nearly zero as well (stamping out another pill once the drug has been researched and is in production, for example, or another silicon chip, or what have you). Furthermore as the physical property economy evolves and production becomes more efficient, we should expect the production of more and more physical property to near marginal cost–if you are in the business of producing physical property, one of your aims is quite likely to be to drive the cost of production lower and lower. Furthermore in order to sustain incentives for production both IP and physical property need to be priced above marginal cost, especially when marginal cost is zero or near zero. (I need to add a link here to the conference a few years back on marginal costs, but I can’t find it now. Ah, here it is.).

What I just said, in a nutshell: I think the differences between physical property and IP are extremely significant, but not necessarily in the ways that IP critics commonly think they are (here’s an article I wrote on the significance of some differences a while back). For the most part my colleagues at IPcentral think along similar lines. We might use physical property examples as analogies, but an analogy is well, an analogy, not intended to be taken too literally.

If it makes IP critics happier, I could call “intellectual property” something else. Say, “intellectual schmoperty,” or more seriously, as I experimented with a few years back, a set of special default rules for contract (that happen not to require privity). But whether one calls it property or not, the substance of the debate about its merits remains the same, and one can still make analogies.

B) The second point where I suspect we ultimately differ is in the nature of the fences that Jim talks about and the sort of fences that I would describe. Fences are definitely important. Physical fences are the most basic, and then there are also legal fences, either contractual or statutory. But did Jim mean there could be only physical fences? (I don’t think he meant that, that would be Hobbes not Locke).

Either way, fences have costs; keeping the costs of the fences low is important. Physical ones are nice because they are relatively self-enforcing and therefore cheaper–even after development costs (which are internalized by the fencer and so kept in check). For legal bounds, they can’t usually be self-enforcing, but it is better if they are somehow enforceable. Contracts that make a simple trade are best; you give me money, pretty much simultaneously I give you an apple, done. Then comes contracts that involve relations that are more remote in time in place… they get awfully complicated. And then finally comes statutes, which are the most complicated of all, and start involving rent-seeking risks and a load of other stuff. Last-resort rules and last-resort enforcement institutions that have not evolved nearly as fast the private economy (a government failure, if you would, rather than a market failure).

So what do we do in an environment where fences of any kind have suddenly become almost impossible to maintain? We could just . . . let it go. But I think that this ends up in a world that is a little too close to Hobbes for my taste, or for investor’s tastes. So where I ultimately differ with Jim is in thinking that it is all right to tinker a bit at the margins with the substantive ground rules to help the fences take shape and maintain some semblance of integrity. Nor do I think the burden of bearing the costs of the fencing needs to be entirely on the owners of the property being fenced, just so long as most of it is.

But it is really a small difference. To make an analogy, Jim (Harper) would not like, I take it, legal rules restricting the proliferation of specialized tools for opening locked car doors. I think that such rules are preferable to the alternative. But note that for me this is essentially an empirical question about the circumstances under which everyone is better off!!!! A very hard call to make on the basis of a priori arguments. Which is why I have booted IP into my mental category of hard problems.

Jim, go ahead and make your argument now about malum prohibitum, etc., if you want, I thought you were going to make that and I wanted to respond to that, too.

View Comments Posted in: DMCA, DRM & Piracy

  • Solveig,

    How about this explanation for some of our criticisms. We don't like having fences that limit our use of the goods we buy forced on us. Please be careful to distinguish libertarians from liberals here. I don't mind the iTMS' DRM. It doesn't restrict me at all in my regular use. It is almost as transparent as the I/O system in OSX or Windows. It's like a fence that I can freely come and go through.


    A lot of DRM is very intrusive, just look at what DVDs can do. The vendor can force you to watch commercials on a DVD you paid for! Perhaps the solution is a great deal of nuance in the law itself. What is the cracker's motive? There's a big difference between me cracking my DVDs to make backups and a high school student ripping off Blockbuster. Why should I be hindered? I bought the DVD and my changes are for my own use. There is no economic harm to anyone but me if I make multiple copies for my own use.


    It seems to me that IPCentral's contributors are squeemish about using *gasp* law enforcement to separate the two. I wouldn't mind increasing the FBI's IP enforcement division 200% in order to ensure that they could shut down mass copying at universities for example. At its core, it's a social, not a technological problem, and the only way to make extremely good DRM is to sacrifice openness and competition in IT.


    The one thing that I find most annoying about DeLong, at least, is his avoidance of the technical issues involved in implementing his legal ideas. On what technical basis does he assume that his ideas about DRM are feasible? My primary experience is in application and web development, but I do have some formal education in operating system design. The technical problems are quite real, and what I don't see is DeLong posting concise implementation ideas. Interoperable, open DRM that doesn't balkanize IT is great! So what's his plan for how to make it happen when there is both a business and technical incentive for a leading DRM vendor to be 110% proprietary in their approach? I seriously doubt that DeLong and others really appreciate the technical ramifications of what they propose. Ironically, the PC industry was made possible by the violationg of IP rights.


    Sorry for the rant and I'm sorry that you end up doing the grunt work here for him.

  • Doug Lay
    Although the DMCA may have been intended intended to shore up the position of the content industry vis-a-vis the technology industry, it appears the main beneficiary so far has been Apple, whose FairPlay DRM, backed by the DMCA, establishes a formidable barrier to entry for competitors in the digital music space.

    Perhaps content vs. tech is the wrong way of looking at the breakdown of interests. Incumbents vs. disruptors is more like it - with the DMCA providing protection for the incumbents. Piracy is largely a red herring - as people like Ed Felten and Tim have demonstrated again and again.
  • Tim
    Well-financed business models that do *not* use DRM continue to be ... thin. So DRM does seem to be doing *something.*

    All this proves is that incumbent content companies think that DRM does something. They might be right, but they also might just be gullible and risk-averse.

    Also, the fact that it hasn't been a nightmare for you (or for the business community) doesn't mean it's hasn't been a nightmare for anyone. Perhaps the reason there are so many geek activists is that they're the ones for whom the DMCA is a nightmare.
  • Solveig Singleton
    Quickie response to Tim:

    -Well-financed business models that do *not* use DRM continue to be ... thin. So DRM does seem to be doing *something.* It does not prevent piracy in the sense of stopping determined crackers. What DRM does do is enable sales to ordinary people who might casually pilfer if the cost (in time and trouble, not money necessarily) of doing so were absolutely negligible. This is two sides of the same coin, but, still, different sides.

    -What the DMCA seems to have done is manage to keep the commercial development of consumer- friendly cracking tools enough in check to keep the costs of cracking (not monetary costs, obviously, but time and trouble) higher than it would otherwise be. Whether this effect is necessary, helpful, or negligible is very hard to say--it probably differs with the media in question. My colleagues have done more in this area than I have.

    Here's what we do know: Lots of business models that use DRM have cropped up since the passage of the DMCA, and while there have been problems it has not proven to be the nightmare for tech that some anticipated; it is an activist issue but not so much a business issue.

    Again, an analogy to the ban on lock-picking tools--is this absolutely necessary? I *can* imagine a world without such a rule, but I think a lot of effort would be expended on the simple act of securing doors; a lot of folks would prefer to be doing something else. Is it helpful? Is that enough? It might be, unless one is an "act utilitarian." I'm not.

    Bottom line: Back to my starting point. In an environment where boundaries of any kind were getting awfully hard to maintain, it isn't surprising that there has been legal tinkering to compensate. This is problematic, but that direction is unlikely to be abandoned unless there is some other solution to the enforcement problem.

    -Software and other digital-age tools being potentially much more varied and flexible than tools to manipulate "meat space," the line between crowbars and specialized lock-picking tools becomes hard to draw. Lots of tough calls. Again, I'm not an "act utilitarian," I just hope that the line can be drawn somewhere where as little damage is done as possible.

    Oops, that was supposed to be short. Crikey.

    Another thought, though, that I want to jot down before it gets away from me: the DMCA was passed long before the Supreme Court decided Grokster. One thing to think about is the extent to which the boost they give to antiquated enforcement methods overlaps. I will have to think about this some more and where one might go with it.
  • Tim
    To make an analogy, Jim would not like, I take it, legal rules restricting the proliferation of specialized tools for opening locked car doors. I think that such rules are preferable to the altnerative. But note that for me this is essentially an empirical question about the circumstances under which everyone is better off!!!! A very hard call to make on the basis of a priori arguments. Which is why I have booted IP into my mental category of hard problems.

    I think this is precisely the grounds on which the merits of the DMCA debate should be argued. I would be curious to see you elaborate on your view on the effectiveness of DRM (and the DMCA) at preventing piracy.

    There's also a question about whether those "specialized tools" have other legitimate uses. A crowbar is a useful burglary tool, but you would not (I assume) support banning it on those grounds, since crowbars are also useful for many legal activities, such as home improvement. Likewise, the merits of banning "circumvention devices" turns not only on whether doing so will reduce piracy, but also on whether the ban will needlessly constrain people who are not engaged in piracy.
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