Comments on: Horseshoes, Hand Grenades, and the FCC: Will the D.C. Circuit Ground Net Neutrality Rules? http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/ Keeping politicians' hands off the Net & everything else related to technology Sun, 27 May 2012 22:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: data recovery http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-68805 data recovery Fri, 04 Jun 2010 00:31:42 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-68805 <p>To make this plan effective will take some time but I believe there would be certainly right outcome with this regulation.</p> To make this plan effective will take some time but I believe there would be certainly right outcome with this regulation.

]]> By: data recovery http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-68368 data recovery Thu, 03 Jun 2010 19:31:42 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-68368 <p>To make this plan effective will take some time but I believe there would be certainly right outcome with this regulation.</p> To make this plan effective will take some time but I believe there would be certainly right outcome with this regulation.

]]> By: Net Neutrality is Now Deader than Dead | Venture Chronicles http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-67795 Net Neutrality is Now Deader than Dead | Venture Chronicles Tue, 06 Apr 2010 17:17:42 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-67795 <p>[...] It is in itself a remarkable legal theory, allowing a regulatory agency to act in areas where there is no grant of authority, simply because it is related to an area in which authority has been granted.   In a very real sense, it is a “horseshoes and hand grenades” doctrine, in which close is good enough to count. Even within the framework of ancillary jurisdiction, however, the case for jurisdiction in this case is startlingly tenuous and dangerously broad. (For an excellent analysis of the problems, see James Speta’s new study here.)[From Horseshoes, Hand Grenades, and the FCC: Will the D.C. Circuit Ground Net Neutrality Rules?] [...]</p> [...] It is in itself a remarkable legal theory, allowing a regulatory agency to act in areas where there is no grant of authority, simply because it is related to an area in which authority has been granted.   In a very real sense, it is a “horseshoes and hand grenades” doctrine, in which close is good enough to count. Even within the framework of ancillary jurisdiction, however, the case for jurisdiction in this case is startlingly tenuous and dangerously broad. (For an excellent analysis of the problems, see James Speta’s new study here.)[From Horseshoes, Hand Grenades, and the FCC: Will the D.C. Circuit Ground Net Neutrality Rules?] [...]

]]> By: Celebrating 5,000 Posts on the Technology Liberation Front Since 2004! http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-67730 Celebrating 5,000 Posts on the Technology Liberation Front Since 2004! Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:15:16 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-67730 <p>[...] Neutrality: James Gattuso’s Horseshoes, Hand Grenades, and the FCC: Will the D.C. Circuit Ground Net Neutrality Rules?, Ryan Radia’s How Government Control of Internet Threatens Innovation: My FOXNews.com Op-Ed [...]</p> [...] Neutrality: James Gattuso’s Horseshoes, Hand Grenades, and the FCC: Will the D.C. Circuit Ground Net Neutrality Rules?, Ryan Radia’s How Government Control of Internet Threatens Innovation: My FOXNews.com Op-Ed [...]

]]> By: FCC’s Genachowski Promises He’s Not Out to Regulate Net, New Media « Internet Freedom Coalition http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-67061 FCC’s Genachowski Promises He’s Not Out to Regulate Net, New Media « Internet Freedom Coalition Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:15:49 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-67061 <p>[...] fundamental break with the approach Congress decided we would take to the Internet. The DC Circuit will likely soon rule that the FCC has vastly overstepped its authority in trying to set Internet policy without any [...]</p> [...] fundamental break with the approach Congress decided we would take to the Internet. The DC Circuit will likely soon rule that the FCC has vastly overstepped its authority in trying to set Internet policy without any [...]

]]> By: The Progress & Freedom Foundation Blog http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-66501 The Progress & Freedom Foundation Blog Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:53:15 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-66501 <p><strong>FCC's Genachowski Promises He's Not Out to Regulate Net, New Media...</strong></p> <p>By Berin Szoka & Adam Thierer We learned from The Wall Street Journal yesterday that "Federal Communications Commission Chairman Julius Genachowski gets a little peeved when people suggests that he wants to regulate the Internet." He told a group...</p> FCC’s Genachowski Promises He’s Not Out to Regulate Net, New Media…

By Berin Szoka & Adam Thierer We learned from The Wall Street Journal yesterday that “Federal Communications Commission Chairman Julius Genachowski gets a little peeved when people suggests that he wants to regulate the Internet.” He told a group…

]]> By: FCC’s Genachowski Promises He’s Not Out to Regulate Net, New Media http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-66496 FCC’s Genachowski Promises He’s Not Out to Regulate Net, New Media Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:17:46 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-66496 <p>[...] fundamental break with the approach Congress decided we would take to the Internet. The DC Circuit will likely soon rule that the FCC has vastly overstepped its authority in trying to set Internet policy without any [...]</p> [...] fundamental break with the approach Congress decided we would take to the Internet. The DC Circuit will likely soon rule that the FCC has vastly overstepped its authority in trying to set Internet policy without any [...]

]]> By: legally - StartTags.com http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-66025 legally - StartTags.com Tue, 26 Jan 2010 00:57:23 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-66025 <p>[...] one, but I could only fit a few of my updates on it, and that just wasn't good enough for me. ...Horseshoes, Hand Grenades, and the FCC: Will the D.C. Circuit ...A funny thing happened to the FCC Friday on its way to regulating the Internet: a federal ... [...]</p> [...] one, but I could only fit a few of my updates on it, and that just wasn't good enough for me. …Horseshoes, Hand Grenades, and the FCC: Will the D.C. Circuit …A funny thing happened to the FCC Friday on its way to regulating the Internet: a federal … [...]

]]> By: EFF Weighs in on Proposed FCC Net Neutrality Rules | Left to chance http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-64765 EFF Weighs in on Proposed FCC Net Neutrality Rules | Left to chance Thu, 14 Jan 2010 22:00:08 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-64765 <p>[...] “ancillary jurisdiction” that the FCC has asserted as a basis for the regulations is legally insufficient and would, if accepted, give the FCC potentially unbounded power to regulate the Internet however [...]</p> [...] “ancillary jurisdiction” that the FCC has asserted as a basis for the regulations is legally insufficient and would, if accepted, give the FCC potentially unbounded power to regulate the Internet however [...]

]]> By: EFF Weighs in on Proposed FCC Net Neutrality Rules « Free Expression Network http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-64761 EFF Weighs in on Proposed FCC Net Neutrality Rules « Free Expression Network Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:15:36 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-64761 <p>[...] proposed. The "ancillary jurisdiction" that the FCC has asserted as a basis for the regulations is legally insufficient and would, if accepted, give the FCC potentially unbounded power to regulate the Internet however [...]</p> [...] proposed. The "ancillary jurisdiction" that the FCC has asserted as a basis for the regulations is legally insufficient and would, if accepted, give the FCC potentially unbounded power to regulate the Internet however [...]

]]> By: mwendy http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-64693 mwendy Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:49:40 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-64693 <p>I think they stand on weak ground, too. The Communications Act reveals as much. Commissioner McDowell notes this in the NPRM, too - i.e., the FCC can't use the general sections of Title I to create Title II common carrier burdens on non-common carriers (ISPs). He doesn't say it, but that's essentially Congress' job.</p> I think they stand on weak ground, too. The Communications Act reveals as much. Commissioner McDowell notes this in the NPRM, too – i.e., the FCC can't use the general sections of Title I to create Title II common carrier burdens on non-common carriers (ISPs). He doesn't say it, but that's essentially Congress' job.

]]> By: mwendy http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-64669 mwendy Tue, 12 Jan 2010 02:49:40 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-64669 <p>I think they stand on weak ground, too. The Communications Act reveals as much. Commissioner McDowell notes this in the NPRM, too - i.e., the FCC can't use the general sections of Title I to create Title II common carrier burdens on non-common carriers (ISPs). He doesn't say it, but that's essentially Congress' job.</p> I think they stand on weak ground, too. The Communications Act reveals as much. Commissioner McDowell notes this in the NPRM, too – i.e., the FCC can't use the general sections of Title I to create Title II common carrier burdens on non-common carriers (ISPs). He doesn't say it, but that's essentially Congress' job.

]]> By: Court to FCC: “You can’t get an unbridled, roving commission to go about doing good.” - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-64664 Court to FCC: “You can’t get an unbridled, roving commission to go about doing good.” - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:13:28 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-64664 <p>[...] its authority to regulate neutrality on the Internet stems from "ancillary jurisdiction." According to Gattuso, "this court-defined doctrine, itself to be found nowhere in the text of the Communications Act, [...]</p> [...] its authority to regulate neutrality on the Internet stems from "ancillary jurisdiction." According to Gattuso, "this court-defined doctrine, itself to be found nowhere in the text of the Communications Act, [...]

]]> By: jamesgattuso http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-64654 jamesgattuso Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:56:45 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-64654 <p>I think there is a difference here. Agencies are certainly granted deference to their judgment in their fields of jurisdiction. But, at least according to the broadcast flag case (ALA v. FCC), they don't enjoy that deference in deciding whether they have jurisdiction in the first place. Of course, the FCC contests this reading of ALA, but I think their argument to the contrary really is a stretch.<br><br>That doesn't mean that the ancillary jurisdiction will be completely tossed (although one can always hope). But this application of the doctrine is on very weak ground.</p> I think there is a difference here. Agencies are certainly granted deference to their judgment in their fields of jurisdiction. But, at least according to the broadcast flag case (ALA v. FCC), they don't enjoy that deference in deciding whether they have jurisdiction in the first place. Of course, the FCC contests this reading of ALA, but I think their argument to the contrary really is a stretch.

That doesn't mean that the ancillary jurisdiction will be completely tossed (although one can always hope). But this application of the doctrine is on very weak ground.

]]> By: mwendy http://techliberation.com/2010/01/11/horseshoes-hand-grenades-and-the-fcc-will-the-d-c-circuit-ground-net-neutrality-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-64651 mwendy Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:29:30 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=24954#comment-64651 <p>Whether you think it's right or wrong, agency deference gets them to "ancillary jurisdiction". And, the FCC has used it to regulate access in the past - in its Computer Inquiries. I'm not a big fan of this, but then I'm not a big fan of using "general welfare" and "necessary and proper," Article I, Sect 8 clauses to create agencies that do what Congress was specifically tasked to do - that is, create law.<br><br>At the very least, the FCC should accord itself with the Administrative Procedure Act - but it may be that they need to go back to Congress to get proper authority to regulate information services like common carrier services.</p> Whether you think it's right or wrong, agency deference gets them to “ancillary jurisdiction”. And, the FCC has used it to regulate access in the past – in its Computer Inquiries. I'm not a big fan of this, but then I'm not a big fan of using “general welfare” and “necessary and proper,” Article I, Sect 8 clauses to create agencies that do what Congress was specifically tasked to do – that is, create law.

At the very least, the FCC should accord itself with the Administrative Procedure Act – but it may be that they need to go back to Congress to get proper authority to regulate information services like common carrier services.

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