Comments on: You’d Have to Be Smoking Dope to Believe the Zittrain-Lessig Thesis http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/ Keeping politicians' hands off the Net & everything else related to technology Sun, 27 May 2012 22:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Facebook User http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-66143 Facebook User Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:40:32 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-66143 <p>The DMCA is a poor example to bring up in this debate because it's not an example of corporate schemers using market power to setup controls, but rather corporate lobbyists manipulating Congress in order to setup controls. Lessig and Zittrain would likely propose that Congress get involved to stop AOL or Apple from controlling all that we see on the net, but they don't seem to realize/acknowledge that granting those types of regulatory powers to Congress or one of the various agencies will only invite more corporate influence and manipulation of the system.<br><br>Lessig clearly understands this phenomenon of manipulation of government power as it applies to copyright, but fails to see the light when it comes to regulatory control of lots of other things. His proposal to abolish the FCC and replace it with something that's just about an exact clone of the FCC betrays this fact. It seems that Lessig only sees regulatory capture when it suits him.<br><br>The Internet is a network of networks--a community of cooperating, yet independent actors--so it shouldn't be possible for any one company to become its dark overlord...unless, of course, they get help from Washington.</p> The DMCA is a poor example to bring up in this debate because it's not an example of corporate schemers using market power to setup controls, but rather corporate lobbyists manipulating Congress in order to setup controls. Lessig and Zittrain would likely propose that Congress get involved to stop AOL or Apple from controlling all that we see on the net, but they don't seem to realize/acknowledge that granting those types of regulatory powers to Congress or one of the various agencies will only invite more corporate influence and manipulation of the system.

Lessig clearly understands this phenomenon of manipulation of government power as it applies to copyright, but fails to see the light when it comes to regulatory control of lots of other things. His proposal to abolish the FCC and replace it with something that's just about an exact clone of the FCC betrays this fact. It seems that Lessig only sees regulatory capture when it suits him.

The Internet is a network of networks–a community of cooperating, yet independent actors–so it shouldn't be possible for any one company to become its dark overlord…unless, of course, they get help from Washington.

]]> By: Dave http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-66144 Dave Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:38:32 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-66144 <p>Good article -- I'd argue that this proclivity towards gloomy pessimism is endemic to the entire Keynesian/fixed-pie mentality so common among many academics and journalists, as I wrote in my critique of Nick Carr's The Big Switch (see <a href="http://taylorfrigon.blogspot.com/2008/06/critique-of-big-switch-by-nicholas-carr.html" rel="nofollow">http://taylorfrigon.blogspot.com/2008/06/critiq...</a> ). "It's not that we don't believe that there can be negative consequences to new technologies: clearly there can be, and attempts to foresee those (such as Mr. Carr's book) are valuable and necessary. But The Big Switch puts forth the common pseudo-economic arguments (popularized primarily by Keynesian economists and especially the late John Kenneth Galbraith) that businesses bend societies to do their bidding, enslaving consumers and forcing them to spend to the detriment of those consumers and to the detriment of society in general. For example, in discussing the changes brought about by electricity, Mr. Carr complains that because of the new capabilities in ironing and cleaning that electricity enabled, consumers (especially women) in the twentieth century actually became enslaved to the new electric regime. He says: 'Clothes had to be changed more frequently, rugs had to be cleaner, curls in hair had to be bouncier, meals had to be more elaborate, and the household china had to be more plentiful and gleam more brightly' (99)." Ah, the tyranny of vacuum cleaners, washer-dryers, and electric curling irons.<br><br>As for the tangential conversation about whether jailbreaking an iPhone is legal or illegal, the real question is, "Does anybody force you to purchase an iPhone against your will?" I didn't think so.</p> Good article — I'd argue that this proclivity towards gloomy pessimism is endemic to the entire Keynesian/fixed-pie mentality so common among many academics and journalists, as I wrote in my critique of Nick Carr's The Big Switch (see http://taylorfrigon.blogspot.com/2008/06/critiq… ). “It's not that we don't believe that there can be negative consequences to new technologies: clearly there can be, and attempts to foresee those (such as Mr. Carr's book) are valuable and necessary. But The Big Switch puts forth the common pseudo-economic arguments (popularized primarily by Keynesian economists and especially the late John Kenneth Galbraith) that businesses bend societies to do their bidding, enslaving consumers and forcing them to spend to the detriment of those consumers and to the detriment of society in general. For example, in discussing the changes brought about by electricity, Mr. Carr complains that because of the new capabilities in ironing and cleaning that electricity enabled, consumers (especially women) in the twentieth century actually became enslaved to the new electric regime. He says: 'Clothes had to be changed more frequently, rugs had to be cleaner, curls in hair had to be bouncier, meals had to be more elaborate, and the household china had to be more plentiful and gleam more brightly' (99).” Ah, the tyranny of vacuum cleaners, washer-dryers, and electric curling irons.

As for the tangential conversation about whether jailbreaking an iPhone is legal or illegal, the real question is, “Does anybody force you to purchase an iPhone against your will?” I didn't think so.

]]> By: InfoBore 49 « ubiwar . conflict in n dimensions http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62224 InfoBore 49 « ubiwar . conflict in n dimensions Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:21:37 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62224 <p>[...] You’d Have to Be Smoking Dope to Believe the Zittrain-Lessig Thesis – Adam Thierer, Technology Liberation Front [...]</p> [...] You’d Have to Be Smoking Dope to Believe the Zittrain-Lessig Thesis – Adam Thierer, Technology Liberation Front [...]

]]> By: Facebook User http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62197 Facebook User Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:40:32 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62197 <p>The DMCA is a poor example to bring up in this debate because it's not an example of corporate schemers using market power to setup controls, but rather corporate lobbyists manipulating Congress in order to setup controls. Lessig and Zittrain would likely propose that Congress get involved to stop AOL or Apple from controlling all that we see on the net, but they don't seem to realize/acknowledge that granting those types of regulatory powers to Congress or one of the various agencies will only invite more corporate influence and manipulation of the system.<br><br>Lessig clearly understands this phenomenon of manipulation of government power as it applies to copyright, but fails to see the light when it comes to regulatory control of lots of other things. His proposal to abolish the FCC and replace it with something that's just about an exact clone of the FCC betrays this fact. It seems that Lessig only sees regulatory capture when it suits him.<br><br>The Internet is a network of networks--a community of cooperating, yet independent actors--so it shouldn't be possible for any one company to become its dark overlord...unless, of course, they get help from Washington.</p> The DMCA is a poor example to bring up in this debate because it's not an example of corporate schemers using market power to setup controls, but rather corporate lobbyists manipulating Congress in order to setup controls. Lessig and Zittrain would likely propose that Congress get involved to stop AOL or Apple from controlling all that we see on the net, but they don't seem to realize/acknowledge that granting those types of regulatory powers to Congress or one of the various agencies will only invite more corporate influence and manipulation of the system.

Lessig clearly understands this phenomenon of manipulation of government power as it applies to copyright, but fails to see the light when it comes to regulatory control of lots of other things. His proposal to abolish the FCC and replace it with something that's just about an exact clone of the FCC betrays this fact. It seems that Lessig only sees regulatory capture when it suits him.

The Internet is a network of networks–a community of cooperating, yet independent actors–so it shouldn't be possible for any one company to become its dark overlord…unless, of course, they get help from Washington.

]]> By: Dave http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62196 Dave Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:38:32 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62196 <p>Good article -- I'd argue that this proclivity towards gloomy pessimism is endemic to the entire Keynesian/fixed-pie mentality so common among many academics and journalists, as I wrote in my critique of Nick Carr's The Big Switch (see <a href="http://taylorfrigon.blogspot.com/2008/06/critique-of-big-switch-by-nicholas-carr.html" rel="nofollow">http://taylorfrigon.blogspot.com/2008/06/critiq...</a> ). "It's not that we don't believe that there can be negative consequences to new technologies: clearly there can be, and attempts to foresee those (such as Mr. Carr's book) are valuable and necessary. But The Big Switch puts forth the common pseudo-economic arguments (popularized primarily by Keynesian economists and especially the late John Kenneth Galbraith) that businesses bend societies to do their bidding, enslaving consumers and forcing them to spend to the detriment of those consumers and to the detriment of society in general. For example, in discussing the changes brought about by electricity, Mr. Carr complains that because of the new capabilities in ironing and cleaning that electricity enabled, consumers (especially women) in the twentieth century actually became enslaved to the new electric regime. He says: 'Clothes had to be changed more frequently, rugs had to be cleaner, curls in hair had to be bouncier, meals had to be more elaborate, and the household china had to be more plentiful and gleam more brightly' (99)." Ah, the tyranny of vacuum cleaners, washer-dryers, and electric curling irons.<br><br>As for the tangential conversation about whether jailbreaking an iPhone is legal or illegal, the real question is, "Does anybody force you to purchase an iPhone against your will?" I didn't think so.</p> Good article — I'd argue that this proclivity towards gloomy pessimism is endemic to the entire Keynesian/fixed-pie mentality so common among many academics and journalists, as I wrote in my critique of Nick Carr's The Big Switch (see http://taylorfrigon.blogspot.com/2008/06/critiq… ). “It's not that we don't believe that there can be negative consequences to new technologies: clearly there can be, and attempts to foresee those (such as Mr. Carr's book) are valuable and necessary. But The Big Switch puts forth the common pseudo-economic arguments (popularized primarily by Keynesian economists and especially the late John Kenneth Galbraith) that businesses bend societies to do their bidding, enslaving consumers and forcing them to spend to the detriment of those consumers and to the detriment of society in general. For example, in discussing the changes brought about by electricity, Mr. Carr complains that because of the new capabilities in ironing and cleaning that electricity enabled, consumers (especially women) in the twentieth century actually became enslaved to the new electric regime. He says: 'Clothes had to be changed more frequently, rugs had to be cleaner, curls in hair had to be bouncier, meals had to be more elaborate, and the household china had to be more plentiful and gleam more brightly' (99).” Ah, the tyranny of vacuum cleaners, washer-dryers, and electric curling irons.

As for the tangential conversation about whether jailbreaking an iPhone is legal or illegal, the real question is, “Does anybody force you to purchase an iPhone against your will?” I didn't think so.

]]> By: angelia110 http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62138 angelia110 Thu, 17 Sep 2009 04:27:48 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62138 <p><h2 align="center">Ugg Boots--More Fashion Or Just A Trend Now?</h2><br></p> <p>-->Several years ago, a new popular wind has been blowing the nation. Some adored it while others are amazed and confused by its success. This fashion trend is known as the <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/" title="Ugg boots" rel="nofollow">Ugg boots</a>. Although an unattractive appearance, Uggs has gained a huge following among all fans. Not only they are extremely trendy,but also their features to keep feet warm in cold day and cool in summer.</p> <p><br></p> <p>-->But <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/" title="Uggs" rel="nofollow">Uggs</a> is more than just sheepskin boots; it has casual uggs, slippers as well as handbags and other accessories. <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/ugg-classic-cardy-c-161.html" title="Ugg cardy" rel="nofollow">Ugg cardy</a>, <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/ugg-classic-short-c-160.html" title="Ugg Short" rel="nofollow">Ugg Short</a>, <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/ugg-classic-tall-c-162.html" title="Ugg Tall" rel="nofollow">Ugg Tall</a>, .<a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/ugg-classic-tall-c-162.html" title="Classic ugg boots" rel="nofollow">Classic ugg boots</a> are comfortable, stylish, and great to wear in any occasion. Ugg slippers are warm and comforting that both indoor or outside is ok . Ugg also offers a full line of high-quality handbags and backpacks to match your Uggs. A pair of Ugg boots, matched Ugg handbag is the perfect shows.</p> <p><br></p> <p>-->Why Be Fashionable - Why Not? This fashion style, perfect deductived by famous stars, had blow up a fashion to imitate of wearing UGGs, to perfectly match with long jeans, minipants, skirts,etc. </p> <p><br></p> <p>-->With Kate Winslet, "Declaimer," "Revolutionary Road," two outstanding performances in the film won the Golden Globe for best supporting actress and best leading actress in the film drama category, won several Oscar nominations . She was photographed shoed a pair of UGGs, with her daughter the same impersonation. And reporters caught Hayden Panettiere at a vegetarian Thai restaurant on Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles. Hayden sported a denim hot pants and <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/" title="Ugg boots" rel="nofollow">Ugg boots</a>.</p> <p><br></p> <p>-->Ugg Boots--Is More Fashion Or Just A Trend Now?</p> <p><br></p> <p>-->The Ugg boot is made with sheepskin instead of regular leather which helps you stay cool in the summer and keeps you warm and dry in the winter making it the perfect boots to wear in all seasons. </p> <p><br></p> <p>-->No matter is fashion or just a tread now, it also can be your style that makes you be more fashion mastering trend pop. With it, you will feel comfortable, look trendy, and be the envy of everyone around you. I don't have permission to require you finding the ugg boots at <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/" title="goodugg.co.uk" rel="nofollow">goodugg.co.uk</a>, but shout out if you find them!</p> <h2 align=”center”>Ugg Boots–More Fashion Or Just A Trend Now?</h2>

–>Several years ago, a new popular wind has been blowing the nation. Some adored it while others are amazed and confused by its success. This fashion trend is known as the Ugg boots. Although an unattractive appearance, Uggs has gained a huge following among all fans. Not only they are extremely trendy,but also their features to keep feet warm in cold day and cool in summer.


–>But Uggs is more than just sheepskin boots; it has casual uggs, slippers as well as handbags and other accessories. Ugg cardy, Ugg Short, Ugg Tall, .Classic ugg boots are comfortable, stylish, and great to wear in any occasion. Ugg slippers are warm and comforting that both indoor or outside is ok . Ugg also offers a full line of high-quality handbags and backpacks to match your Uggs. A pair of Ugg boots, matched Ugg handbag is the perfect shows.


–>Why Be Fashionable – Why Not? This fashion style, perfect deductived by famous stars, had blow up a fashion to imitate of wearing UGGs, to perfectly match with long jeans, minipants, skirts,etc.


–>With Kate Winslet, "Declaimer," "Revolutionary Road," two outstanding performances in the film won the Golden Globe for best supporting actress and best leading actress in the film drama category, won several Oscar nominations . She was photographed shoed a pair of UGGs, with her daughter the same impersonation. And reporters caught Hayden Panettiere at a vegetarian Thai restaurant on Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles. Hayden sported a denim hot pants and Ugg boots.


–>Ugg Boots–Is More Fashion Or Just A Trend Now?


–>The Ugg boot is made with sheepskin instead of regular leather which helps you stay cool in the summer and keeps you warm and dry in the winter making it the perfect boots to wear in all seasons.


–>No matter is fashion or just a tread now, it also can be your style that makes you be more fashion mastering trend pop. With it, you will feel comfortable, look trendy, and be the envy of everyone around you. I don't have permission to require you finding the ugg boots at goodugg.co.uk, but shout out if you find them!

]]> By: angelia110 http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62122 angelia110 Thu, 17 Sep 2009 02:09:21 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62122 <p><h2 align="center">Ugg Boots--More Fashion Or Just A Trend Now?</h2><br></p> <p>-->Several years ago, a new popular wind has been blowing the nation. Some adored it while others are amazed and confused by its success. This fashion trend is known as the <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/" title="Ugg boots" rel="nofollow">Ugg boots</a>. Although an unattractive appearance, Uggs has gained a huge following among all fans. Not only they are extremely trendy,but also their features to keep feet warm in cold day and cool in summer.</p> <p><br></p> <p>-->But <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/" title="Uggs" rel="nofollow">Uggs</a> is more than just sheepskin boots; it has casual uggs, slippers as well as handbags and other accessories. <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/ugg-classic-cardy-c-161.html" title="Ugg cardy" rel="nofollow">Ugg cardy</a>, <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/ugg-classic-short-c-160.html" title="Ugg Short" rel="nofollow">Ugg Short</a>, <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/ugg-classic-tall-c-162.html" title="Ugg Tall" rel="nofollow">Ugg Tall</a>, .<a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/ugg-classic-tall-c-162.html" title="Classic ugg boots" rel="nofollow">Classic ugg boots</a> are comfortable, stylish, and great to wear in any occasion. Ugg slippers are warm and comforting that both indoor or outside is ok . Ugg also offers a full line of high-quality handbags and backpacks to match your Uggs. A pair of Ugg boots, matched Ugg handbag is the perfect shows.</p> <p><br></p> <p>-->Why Be Fashionable - Why Not? This fashion style, perfect deductived by famous stars, had blow up a fashion to imitate of wearing UGGs, to perfectly match with long jeans, minipants, skirts,etc. </p> <p><br></p> <p>-->With Kate Winslet, "Declaimer," "Revolutionary Road," two outstanding performances in the film won the Golden Globe for best supporting actress and best leading actress in the film drama category, won several Oscar nominations . She was photographed shoed a pair of UGGs, with her daughter the same impersonation. And reporters caught Hayden Panettiere at a vegetarian Thai restaurant on Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles. Hayden sported a denim hot pants and <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/" title="Ugg boots" rel="nofollow">Ugg boots</a>.</p> <p><br></p> <p>-->Ugg Boots--Is More Fashion Or Just A Trend Now?</p> <p><br></p> <p>-->The Ugg boot is made with sheepskin instead of regular leather which helps you stay cool in the summer and keeps you warm and dry in the winter making it the perfect boots to wear in all seasons. </p> <p><br></p> <p>-->No matter is fashion or just a tread now, it also can be your style that makes you be more fashion mastering trend pop. With it, you will feel comfortable, look trendy, and be the envy of everyone around you. I don't have permission to require you finding the ugg boots at <a href="http://www.goodugg.co.uk/" title="goodugg.co.uk" rel="nofollow">goodugg.co.uk</a>, but shout out if you find them!</p> <h2 align=”center”>Ugg Boots–More Fashion Or Just A Trend Now?</h2>

–>Several years ago, a new popular wind has been blowing the nation. Some adored it while others are amazed and confused by its success. This fashion trend is known as the Ugg boots. Although an unattractive appearance, Uggs has gained a huge following among all fans. Not only they are extremely trendy,but also their features to keep feet warm in cold day and cool in summer.


–>But Uggs is more than just sheepskin boots; it has casual uggs, slippers as well as handbags and other accessories. Ugg cardy, Ugg Short, Ugg Tall, .Classic ugg boots are comfortable, stylish, and great to wear in any occasion. Ugg slippers are warm and comforting that both indoor or outside is ok . Ugg also offers a full line of high-quality handbags and backpacks to match your Uggs. A pair of Ugg boots, matched Ugg handbag is the perfect shows.


–>Why Be Fashionable – Why Not? This fashion style, perfect deductived by famous stars, had blow up a fashion to imitate of wearing UGGs, to perfectly match with long jeans, minipants, skirts,etc.


–>With Kate Winslet, "Declaimer," "Revolutionary Road," two outstanding performances in the film won the Golden Globe for best supporting actress and best leading actress in the film drama category, won several Oscar nominations . She was photographed shoed a pair of UGGs, with her daughter the same impersonation. And reporters caught Hayden Panettiere at a vegetarian Thai restaurant on Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles. Hayden sported a denim hot pants and Ugg boots.


–>Ugg Boots–Is More Fashion Or Just A Trend Now?


–>The Ugg boot is made with sheepskin instead of regular leather which helps you stay cool in the summer and keeps you warm and dry in the winter making it the perfect boots to wear in all seasons.


–>No matter is fashion or just a tread now, it also can be your style that makes you be more fashion mastering trend pop. With it, you will feel comfortable, look trendy, and be the envy of everyone around you. I don't have permission to require you finding the ugg boots at goodugg.co.uk, but shout out if you find them!

]]> By: Tim Lee http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62051 Tim Lee Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:29:39 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62051 <p>This isn't quite right, Berin. Right now, jailbreaking is probably illegal for anyone--customer or third party--to do. Exemptions apply only to the act of circumvention (1201(a)(1)) and not to "trafficking" in circumvention technologies ((a)(2) and (b)) So if EFF gets its exemption, it will become legal for customers to use jailbreaking tools, but it will probably still be illegal for third parties to provide jailbreaking tools.</p> This isn't quite right, Berin. Right now, jailbreaking is probably illegal for anyone–customer or third party–to do. Exemptions apply only to the act of circumvention (1201(a)(1)) and not to “trafficking” in circumvention technologies ((a)(2) and (b)) So if EFF gets its exemption, it will become legal for customers to use jailbreaking tools, but it will probably still be illegal for third parties to provide jailbreaking tools.

]]> By: Steve R. http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62041 Steve R. Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:07:33 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62041 <p><i>"In short, what is the bare minimum amount of regulatory change necessary to protect "Openness"?"</i><br>That seems backwards. We should not have "regulations" protecting "openness". Since the intent of the TLF is to minimize regulatory involvement, the obvious solution is to eliminate the DMCA to restore "openness".</p> “In short, what is the bare minimum amount of regulatory change necessary to protect “Openness”?”
That seems backwards. We should not have “regulations” protecting “openness”. Since the intent of the TLF is to minimize regulatory involvement, the obvious solution is to eliminate the DMCA to restore “openness”.

]]> By: Peter http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62031 Peter Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:39:23 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62031 <p>You can believe what you want but Apple has made it clear that they consider jailbreaking a DMCA violation. Just the fact that it may be in (at best for the iPhone owner) a grey area is an indicator of control.<br><br>Regardless, proprietary software <em>is</em> control. If one wishes to use only Free (technologically and legally liberated) software, one quickly sees just how limited one's access is to many things. The <em>control</em> becomes stingingly clear. Perhaps the author of this post should try getting by on only Free software and abiding the law - and then tell us how exaggerated the claims are of people like Lessig or Zittrain when it comes to control.<br><br>It's easy to claim that things are not so bad when one is willing to give up one's liberty, then cut corners in an attempt to make up for selling out. Hey, if the author wants to sell out then that's his business, but to then turn around and criticize those who understand the issues 10-fold more than he, is simply foolish.</p> You can believe what you want but Apple has made it clear that they consider jailbreaking a DMCA violation. Just the fact that it may be in (at best for the iPhone owner) a grey area is an indicator of control.

Regardless, proprietary software is control. If one wishes to use only Free (technologically and legally liberated) software, one quickly sees just how limited one's access is to many things. The control becomes stingingly clear. Perhaps the author of this post should try getting by on only Free software and abiding the law – and then tell us how exaggerated the claims are of people like Lessig or Zittrain when it comes to control.

It's easy to claim that things are not so bad when one is willing to give up one's liberty, then cut corners in an attempt to make up for selling out. Hey, if the author wants to sell out then that's his business, but to then turn around and criticize those who understand the issues 10-fold more than he, is simply foolish.

]]> By: Berin Szoka http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62025 Berin Szoka Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:07:27 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62025 <p>As I recall (someone correct me if I'm wrong), unlocking your own phone yourself is legal but the DMCA's anti-circumvention procedures prevent anyone from helping others to unlock their phones by writing software to do so or just doing it for them. This is why the T-Mobile store can't help iPhone users unlock their phone so they can use it on the T-Mobile network, even though individual T-Mobile employees may be able to figure out how to do this with their own phones. I assume the same is true for jailbreaking your phone so you can run whatever apps Apple might block but, again, someone please correct me if this analogy doesn't hold.<br><br>EFF has proposed a DMCA exemption for jailbreaking your phone:<br> Computer programs in the form of firmware that enable wireless telephone<br> handsets to connect to a wireless telephone communication network, when<br> circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of lawfully connecting to a<br> wireless telephone communication network, regardless of commercial motive.<br><br>So here's my question: Let's suppose that EFF got what they wanted and it became legal for anyone to help others jailbreak and unlock their phones (to take them to another carrier)—either (a) for non-commercial purposes only (T-Mobile couldn't help you but free hacking software would be legal) or (b) for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial. Would either form of user empowerment be enough to satisfy the concerns about openness expressed by the Zittrain-Lessig crowd? Would legalizing jailbreaking assistance be enough or would we have to legalize assistance with phone-unlocking? <br><br>In short, what is the bare minimum amount of regulatory change necessary to protect "Openness"?</p> As I recall (someone correct me if I'm wrong), unlocking your own phone yourself is legal but the DMCA's anti-circumvention procedures prevent anyone from helping others to unlock their phones by writing software to do so or just doing it for them. This is why the T-Mobile store can't help iPhone users unlock their phone so they can use it on the T-Mobile network, even though individual T-Mobile employees may be able to figure out how to do this with their own phones. I assume the same is true for jailbreaking your phone so you can run whatever apps Apple might block but, again, someone please correct me if this analogy doesn't hold.

EFF has proposed a DMCA exemption for jailbreaking your phone:
Computer programs in the form of firmware that enable wireless telephone
handsets to connect to a wireless telephone communication network, when
circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of lawfully connecting to a
wireless telephone communication network, regardless of commercial motive.

So here's my question: Let's suppose that EFF got what they wanted and it became legal for anyone to help others jailbreak and unlock their phones (to take them to another carrier)—either (a) for non-commercial purposes only (T-Mobile couldn't help you but free hacking software would be legal) or (b) for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial. Would either form of user empowerment be enough to satisfy the concerns about openness expressed by the Zittrain-Lessig crowd? Would legalizing jailbreaking assistance be enough or would we have to legalize assistance with phone-unlocking?

In short, what is the bare minimum amount of regulatory change necessary to protect “Openness”?

]]> By: robharalson http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-62023 robharalson Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:55:16 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-62023 <p>I have to agree with Adam Thierer on this one. Zittrain's pessimism is completely unfounded. Also, jailbreaking an iPhone illegal. However, it is against the terms of service agreement which voids the warranty.</p> I have to agree with Adam Thierer on this one. Zittrain's pessimism is completely unfounded. Also, jailbreaking an iPhone illegal. However, it is against the terms of service agreement which voids the warranty.

]]> By: Kontra http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-61992 Kontra Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:22:25 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-61992 <p>Yes, “Apple’s evil”…except for all the others.<br><br>Before Apple introduced the iPhone…<br><a href="http://counternotions.com/2009/08/26/pre-iphone/" rel="nofollow">http://counternotions.com/2009/08/26/pre-iphone/</a></p> Yes, “Apple’s evil”…except for all the others.

Before Apple introduced the iPhone…
http://counternotions.com/2009/08/26/pre-iphone/

]]> By: Peter http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-61987 Peter Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:52:37 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-61987 <p>"<i>Apple can’t even keep people from jailbreaking their phones</i> [...]"<br><br>The fact that jailbreaking is against the law and that people have to break the law in order to break free from being controlled is the point. For people who want to follow the law and use technology like Free software, the amount of control being exerted over such people is significant.<br><br>The fact that you argue how easy it is to break the law in order to prove how easy it is to be free of control demonstrates just how much you misunderstand the point people like Lessig and Zittrain (and many others) make.</p> “Apple can’t even keep people from jailbreaking their phones [...]“

The fact that jailbreaking is against the law and that people have to break the law in order to break free from being controlled is the point. For people who want to follow the law and use technology like Free software, the amount of control being exerted over such people is significant.

The fact that you argue how easy it is to break the law in order to prove how easy it is to be free of control demonstrates just how much you misunderstand the point people like Lessig and Zittrain (and many others) make.

]]> By: eee_eff http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-61888 eee_eff Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:15:45 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-61888 <p>hmmm...lessig warns of a rock in the middle of the road. Car swerves, misses rock. Back seat driving TLFers claim rock never existed.<br><br>Yes, that is exactly what happened.</p> hmmm…lessig warns of a rock in the middle of the road. Car swerves, misses rock. Back seat driving TLFers claim rock never existed.

Yes, that is exactly what happened.

]]> By: Ryan Radia http://techliberation.com/2009/09/15/youd-have-to-be-smoking-dope-to-believe-the-zittrain-lessig-thesis/comment-page-1/#comment-61873 Ryan Radia Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:39:56 +0000 http://techliberation.com/?p=21488#comment-61873 <p>It's worth noting that Apple has on a number of occasions rejected iPhone apps on the grounds that they "duplicate existing iPhone functionality." Google Voice, for instance, was blocked not because AT&T objected to it but because Apple believed it duplicated the built-in iPhone voice feature. Zittrain et al have been very vocal in opposing Apple's policy of refusing to allow duplicative iPhone apps, and I think the Lessigites are far more concerned about Apple refusing to allow Google Voice on the Iphone than they are about Apple ayanking the I Am Rich app.</p> It's worth noting that Apple has on a number of occasions rejected iPhone apps on the grounds that they “duplicate existing iPhone functionality.” Google Voice, for instance, was blocked not because AT&T objected to it but because Apple believed it duplicated the built-in iPhone voice feature. Zittrain et al have been very vocal in opposing Apple's policy of refusing to allow duplicative iPhone apps, and I think the Lessigites are far more concerned about Apple refusing to allow Google Voice on the Iphone than they are about Apple ayanking the I Am Rich app.

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