Comments on: another problem for the Zittrain thesis — old people!

By: Another Sky-is-Falling Zittrain Editorial — Technology Liberation Front

Another Sky-is-Falling Zittrain Editorial — Technology Liberation Front — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:48:52 +0000

[...] Another Problem for the Zittrain Thesis — Old People! (4/12/08) [...]

By: The Progress & Freedom Foundation Blog

The Progress & Freedom Foundation Blog — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:15:15 +0000

Odlyzko on Net Neutrality, Price Discrimination, PrivacyFail, Search & Cloud Neutrality...

The latest call for "search neutrality" and "cloud neutrality" comes from Andrew Odlyzko of the University of Minnesota's School of Mathematics & Digital Technology Center--and probably among the top ten most influential academics in Internet...

By: The Progress & Freedom Foundation Blog

The Progress & Freedom Foundation Blog — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:48:49 +0000

Odlyzko on Net Neutrality, Price Discrimination, PrivacyFail, Search & Cloud Neutrality...

by Berin Szoka & Adam Thierer The latest call for "search neutrality" and "cloud neutrality" comes from Andrew Odlyzko of the University of Minnesota's School of Mathematics & Digital Technology Center--and probably among the top ten most ...

By: Odlyzko on Net Neutrality, Price Discrimination, PrivacyFail, Search & Cloud Neutrality — Technology Liberation Front

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:03:25 +0000

[...] with highly “generative” devices and applications, Odlyzko rightly recognizes (as Adam Thierer has) that vertical integration benefits the majority of users who just don’t want to bother: [...]

By: uggworld

uggworld — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:03:49 +0000

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By: uggworld

uggworld — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:03:49 +0000

By: Reflections on ten years of Code :: The Future of the Internet — And How to Stop It

Wed, 06 May 2009 16:58:26 +0000

[...] where I worry about today’s emerging technology environment. It may feel free and diverse and responsive to consumers – I too love the iPhone and Kindle and cloud app [...]

By: Cato Unbound » Blog Archive » How to Get What We All Want

Cato Unbound » Blog Archive » How to Get What We All Want — Wed, 06 May 2009 13:03:17 +0000

[...] where I worry about today’s emerging technology environment. It may feel free and diverse and responsive to consumers — I too love the iPhone and Kindle and cloud app [...]

By: The Most Important Tech Policy Books of 2008 | The Technology Liberation Front

Tue, 10 Feb 2009 04:06:58 +0000

[...] in a lengthy book review and a series of follow-up essays here and elsewhere. (Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5). We’ve also debated his book on the an NPR-Boston [audio is here] and we debated in [...]

By: Adam Thierer

Adam Thierer — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:55:01 +0000

Just FYI... Zittrain and I debated these issues in person at the New America Foundation on November 6th. The video of that event can be found here.

By: Adam Thierer

Adam Thierer — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:55:01 +0000

Just FYI... Zittrain and I debated these issues in person at the New America Foundation on November 6th. The video of that event can be found here.

By: eee_eff

eee_eff — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:46:46 +0000

More people use Windows than all forms of Linux, EF, and more people use their iPhones with AT&T than with any other network.
These are the facts.

And they obviously do not refute my point at all which is: Many people besides hackers receive benefits of open-ness, and that there is a substantial demand for open as opposed to locked down devices, much greater than the .001% you maintain are hackers.

This statement was made in October of 2007 by Apple Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook, Richard:

"Since June 29, approximately 250,000 iPhoneshave been unlocked."

This was out of 1.4 million sold. Hardly an inconsequential number, and certainly there were more who wanted untethered devices, but who didn't actually unlock there phones...

By: e_f

e_f — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:46:46 +0000

More people use Windows than all forms of Linux, EF, and more people use their iPhones with AT&T than with any other network. These are the facts.

And they obviously do not refute my point at all which is: Many people besides hackers receive benefits of open-ness, and that there is a substantial demand for open as opposed to locked down devices, much greater than the .001% you maintain are hackers.

This statement was made in October of 2007 by Apple Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook, Richard:

"Since June 29, approximately 250,000 iPhoneshave been unlocked."

This was out of 1.4 million sold. Hardly an inconsequential number, and certainly there were more who wanted untethered devices, but who didn't actually unlock there phones...

By: Richard Bennett

Richard Bennett — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:53:11 +0000

I assume that the foreigners bring suit against MS because they hate our freedom.

But seriously, I'm aware that MS has some undocumented APIs that they probably use for their own purposes. It's not clear how significant they are, however.

The point was simply that full disclosure of the source code isn't necessary as long as the published API documentation is sufficient. Windows can be a black box, but as long as all the doors and tunnels are open, it's not a barrier to innovation.

By: Seth Finkelstein

Seth Finkelstein — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:39:15 +0000

Richard, the anti-trust lawsuits weren't brought for fun. The point is that there's an issue there which can't be easily dismissed.

I assume you know that many developers have said that what Microsoft publishes is not the full story, and that outside developers are thus placed at a competitive disadvantage.

[tedious anti-straw-man: This is not refuted by saying it's possible to develop to it anyway]

By: Richard Bennett

Richard Bennett — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:10:55 +0000

If you’re talking on your iPhone while driving, will you see the boulder?

By: eee_eff

eee_eff — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:01:43 +0000

However, seeing clearly the danger and freedom removing possibilities of locked down devices may remove partially the likelihood of the worst case scenarios coming to pass.

In other words, if I see a boulder in the middle of the road, I can swerve or brake to avoid it. If I don't see it, I'll probably hit it.

By: Richard Bennett

Richard Bennett — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:53:11 +0000

I assume that the foreigners bring suit against MS because they hate our freedom.

But seriously, I'm aware that MS has some undocumented APIs that they probably use for their own purposes. It's not clear how significant they are, however.

The point was simply that full disclosure of the source code isn't necessary as long as the published API documentation is sufficient. Windows can be a black box, but as long as all the doors and tunnels are open, it's not a barrier to innovation.

By: Seth Finkelstein

Seth Finkelstein — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:39:15 +0000

Richard, the anti-trust lawsuits weren't brought for fun. The point is that there's an issue there which can't be easily dismissed.

I assume you know that many developers have said that what Microsoft publishes is not the full story, and that outside developers are thus placed at a competitive disadvantage.

[tedious anti-straw-man: This is not refuted by saying it's possible to develop to it anyway]

By: Richard Bennett

Richard Bennett — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:29:58 +0000

Firefox and Open Office manage to run quite nicely on the published Windows APIs, Seth.

By: Richard Bennett

Richard Bennett — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:10:55 +0000

If you’re talking on your iPhone while driving, will you see the boulder?

By: e_f

e_f — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:01:43 +0000

However, seeing clearly the danger and freedom removing possibilities of locked down devices may remove partially the likelihood of the worst case scenarios coming to pass.

In other words, if I see a boulder in the middle of the road, I can swerve or brake to avoid it. If I don't see it, I'll probably hit it.

By: Richard Bennett

Richard Bennett — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:29:58 +0000

Firefox and Open Office manage to run quite nicely on the published Windows APIs, Seth.

By: Seth Finkelstein

Seth Finkelstein — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:25:18 +0000

Richard, it may be that I’m now talking about the book I wish JZ wrote instead of the one he did write, but “most of whom have access to APIs and SDKs for closed devices” is a blithe assumption that has been the subject of some very extensive court cases, i.e. Microsoft anti-trust. Moreover, the EU has very strong laws in favor of reverse-engineering. These are significant issues which are not merely the abstract theorizing of a ivory-tower professor.

By: Richard Bennett

Richard Bennett — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:10:07 +0000

More people use Windows than all forms of Linux, EF, and more people use their iPhones with AT&T than with any other network.

These are the facts.

By: eee_eff

eee_eff — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:31:05 +0000

Richard:

The market shows that the open model is preferred by consumers, when they are offered the choice. They rarely are, but that's about to change.

Note the very many iPhones that have been unlocked. That shows that:
1- the benefits of open accrue to many non-hackers.
2 - there is substantial demand for open

By: Seth Finkelstein

Seth Finkelstein — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:25:18 +0000

By: Richard Bennett

Richard Bennett — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:10:07 +0000

More people use Windows than all forms of Linux, EF, and more people use their iPhones with AT&T than with any other network.

These are the facts.

By: e_f

e_f — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:31:05 +0000

Richard:

The market shows that the open model is preferred by consumers, when they are offered the choice. They rarely are, but that's about to change.

Note the very many iPhones that have been unlocked. That shows that: 1- the benefits of open accrue to many non-hackers. 2 - there is substantial demand for open

By: Richard Bennett

Richard Bennett — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:29:44 +0000

GPL'd code, like all code, is mainly written by professionals, we aren't really affected by this open vs. closed philosophical debate. There are open phones and closed phones, just as there are open laptops and closed ones. Markets reject the open code model resoundingly.

We can debate the reasons for that if you wish, but there's really no doubt that open source has been a failure except for a few isolated examples, most of which are professional programers' tools in any case.