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	<title>Comments on: SMTP Blocking</title>
	<atom:link href="http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/</link>
	<description>Keeping politicians&#039; hands off the Net &#38; everything else related to technology</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-65293</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-65293</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for informatiion:)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for informatiion:)</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-62046</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-62046</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for informatiion:)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for informatiion:)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-58381</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-58381</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for informatiion:)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for informatiion:)</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fishbane</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-39884</link>
		<dc:creator>Fishbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 10:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-39884</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, this is common. And as Dimitris notes, some try to bridge/proxy the connection, even with SMTPS, which really creeps me out.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;After getting sick of dealing with this (I run my own few machines for personal/professional use, and travel a lot consulting with small businesses, who frequently use retarded consumer-grade bandwidth), I just started using ssh port forwarding on a nonstandard port.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But try explaining this to someone who doesn&#039;t geek about for a living.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Without taking a stand on the whole NN thing (which is really meaningless, without defining terms), filtering and/or monitoring my traffic based on port numbers is evil.  It may make the pointy hairs happy. It may be that from a pure utility perspective, it cuts down on spam, or P2P, or whatever the current evil is. But if I want to spam from a client site or a hotel network, you&#039;re not going to stop me, at least that way. (Note: I don&#039;t want to.) It just drives an arms race, complicates networks, confuses consumers, and makes everyone&#039;s life hell.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, this is common. And as Dimitris notes, some try to bridge/proxy the connection, even with SMTPS, which really creeps me out.</p>

<p>After getting sick of dealing with this (I run my own few machines for personal/professional use, and travel a lot consulting with small businesses, who frequently use retarded consumer-grade bandwidth), I just started using ssh port forwarding on a nonstandard port.</p>

<p>But try explaining this to someone who doesn&#8217;t geek about for a living.</p>

<p>Without taking a stand on the whole NN thing (which is really meaningless, without defining terms), filtering and/or monitoring my traffic based on port numbers is evil.  It may make the pointy hairs happy. It may be that from a pure utility perspective, it cuts down on spam, or P2P, or whatever the current evil is. But if I want to spam from a client site or a hotel network, you&#8217;re not going to stop me, at least that way. (Note: I don&#8217;t want to.) It just drives an arms race, complicates networks, confuses consumers, and makes everyone&#8217;s life hell.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fishbane</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-47613</link>
		<dc:creator>Fishbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 10:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-47613</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, this is common. And as Dimitris notes, some try to bridge/proxy the connection, even with SMTPS, which really creeps me out.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;After getting sick of dealing with this (I run my own few machines for personal/professional use, and travel a lot consulting with small businesses, who frequently use retarded consumer-grade bandwidth), I just started using ssh port forwarding on a nonstandard port.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But try explaining this to someone who doesn&#039;t geek about for a living.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Without taking a stand on the whole NN thing (which is really meaningless, without defining terms), filtering and/or monitoring my traffic based on port numbers is evil.  It may make the pointy hairs happy. It may be that from a pure utility perspective, it cuts down on spam, or P2P, or whatever the current evil is. But if I want to spam from a client site or a hotel network, you&#039;re not going to stop me, at least that way. (Note: I don&#039;t want to.) It just drives an arms race, complicates networks, confuses consumers, and makes everyone&#039;s life hell.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, this is common. And as Dimitris notes, some try to bridge/proxy the connection, even with SMTPS, which really creeps me out.<br /><br />After getting sick of dealing with this (I run my own few machines for personal/professional use, and travel a lot consulting with small businesses, who frequently use retarded consumer-grade bandwidth), I just started using ssh port forwarding on a nonstandard port.<br /><br />But try explaining this to someone who doesn&#8217;t geek about for a living.<br /><br />Without taking a stand on the whole NN thing (which is really meaningless, without defining terms), filtering and/or monitoring my traffic based on port numbers is evil.  It may make the pointy hairs happy. It may be that from a pure utility perspective, it cuts down on spam, or P2P, or whatever the current evil is. But if I want to spam from a client site or a hotel network, you&#8217;re not going to stop me, at least that way. (Note: I don&#8217;t want to.) It just drives an arms race, complicates networks, confuses consumers, and makes everyone&#8217;s life hell.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dimitris</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-39883</link>
		<dc:creator>dimitris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-39883</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, it gets even nicer.  I&#039;ve experienced a WiFi hotspot (T-Mobile) which was attempting to transparently proxy - i.e. spoof - outbound SMTP connections on port 25.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m also aware of at least one, non-US, residential DSL ISP which was (and still is, to the best of my knowledge) spoofing port 25 in the same way.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So far, I haven&#039;t come across any bit-pusher that has attempted to block port 587, and I only use SSL/TLS over that anyway.  I also have access to a SMTP server with a custom port.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, it gets even nicer.  I&#8217;ve experienced a WiFi hotspot (T-Mobile) which was attempting to transparently proxy &#8211; i.e. spoof &#8211; outbound SMTP connections on port 25.</p>

<p>I&#8217;m also aware of at least one, non-US, residential DSL ISP which was (and still is, to the best of my knowledge) spoofing port 25 in the same way.</p>

<p>So far, I haven&#8217;t come across any bit-pusher that has attempted to block port 587, and I only use SSL/TLS over that anyway.  I also have access to a SMTP server with a custom port.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dimitris</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-47612</link>
		<dc:creator>dimitris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-47612</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, it gets even nicer.  I&#039;ve experienced a WiFi hotspot (T-Mobile) which was attempting to transparently proxy - i.e. spoof - outbound SMTP connections on port 25.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m also aware of at least one, non-US, residential DSL ISP which was (and still is, to the best of my knowledge) spoofing port 25 in the same way.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So far, I haven&#039;t come across any bit-pusher that has attempted to block port 587, and I only use SSL/TLS over that anyway.  I also have access to a SMTP server with a custom port.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, it gets even nicer.  I&#8217;ve experienced a WiFi hotspot (T-Mobile) which was attempting to transparently proxy &#8211; i.e. spoof &#8211; outbound SMTP connections on port 25.</p>

<p><br /></p>

<p>I&#8217;m also aware of at least one, non-US, residential DSL ISP which was (and still is, to the best of my knowledge) spoofing port 25 in the same way.</p>

<p><br /></p>

<p>So far, I haven&#8217;t come across any bit-pusher that has attempted to block port 587, and I only use SSL/TLS over that anyway.  I also have access to a SMTP server with a custom port.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Timon</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-39882</link>
		<dc:creator>Timon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-39882</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is true with ATT.  I can connect to my own server over SSL on port 465, this seems to work for the outgoing blocking problem, and works at cafes etc too.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is true with ATT.  I can connect to my own server over SSL on port 465, this seems to work for the outgoing blocking problem, and works at cafes etc too.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Timon</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-47611</link>
		<dc:creator>Timon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-47611</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is true with ATT.  I can connect to my own server over SSL on port 465, this seems to work for the outgoing blocking problem, and works at cafes etc too.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is true with ATT.  I can connect to my own server over SSL on port 465, this seems to work for the outgoing blocking problem, and works at cafes etc too.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Masnick</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-39881</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-39881</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;AT&amp;T definitely blocks using any other smtp server on port 25 (and, often annoyingly, will limit how many legit emails you can send out over a certain period of time).  You can request an allowance of a specific mail server, but the process is crazy complicated.  It&#039;s best to just sneak around them entirely.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AT&amp;T definitely blocks using any other smtp server on port 25 (and, often annoyingly, will limit how many legit emails you can send out over a certain period of time).  You can request an allowance of a specific mail server, but the process is crazy complicated.  It&#8217;s best to just sneak around them entirely.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Masnick</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-47610</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Masnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-47610</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;AT&amp;T; definitely blocks using any other smtp server on port 25 (and, often annoyingly, will limit how many legit emails you can send out over a certain period of time).  You can request an allowance of a specific mail server, but the process is crazy complicated.  It&#039;s best to just sneak around them entirely.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AT&#038;T; definitely blocks using any other smtp server on port 25 (and, often annoyingly, will limit how many legit emails you can send out over a certain period of time).  You can request an allowance of a specific mail server, but the process is crazy complicated.  It&#8217;s best to just sneak around them entirely.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-39880</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-39880</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It does help combat spam by forcing residential customers to send mail through the ISPs servers, which can set limits on outgoing mail.  (Otherwise, malware running on a home computer can dump spam to any SMTP server on the Internet.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A good ISP will support sending mail on the submission port (587), using SMTP AUTH.  If you configure your mail clients this way, then you should be able to send mail without reconfiguring, regardless of what WiFi system you&#039;re using.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does help combat spam by forcing residential customers to send mail through the ISPs servers, which can set limits on outgoing mail.  (Otherwise, malware running on a home computer can dump spam to any SMTP server on the Internet.)</p>

<p>A good ISP will support sending mail on the submission port (587), using SMTP AUTH.  If you configure your mail clients this way, then you should be able to send mail without reconfiguring, regardless of what WiFi system you&#8217;re using.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-47609</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-47609</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It does help combat spam by forcing residential customers to send mail through the ISPs servers, which can set limits on outgoing mail.  (Otherwise, malware running on a home computer can dump spam to any SMTP server on the Internet.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A good ISP will support sending mail on the submission port (587), using SMTP AUTH.  If you configure your mail clients this way, then you should be able to send mail without reconfiguring, regardless of what WiFi system you&#039;re using.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does help combat spam by forcing residential customers to send mail through the ISPs servers, which can set limits on outgoing mail.  (Otherwise, malware running on a home computer can dump spam to any SMTP server on the Internet.)<br /><br />A good ISP will support sending mail on the submission port (587), using SMTP AUTH.  If you configure your mail clients this way, then you should be able to send mail without reconfiguring, regardless of what WiFi system you&#8217;re using.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-39879</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-39879</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Blocking port 25 is definitely a common practive, Tim. See, for example:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://wiki.dreamhost.com/KB_/&lt;em&gt;Email&lt;/em&gt;/_POP3/IMAP/SMTP_Servers#Does_my_ISP_block_port_25.3F&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Cheers.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blocking port 25 is definitely a common practive, Tim. See, for example:</p>

<p><a href="http://wiki.dreamhost.com/KB_/" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.dreamhost.com/KB_/</a><em>Email</em>/_POP3/IMAP/SMTP_Servers#Does_my_ISP_block_port_25.3F</p>

<p>Cheers.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-47608</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-47608</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Blocking port 25 is definitely a common practive, Tim. See, for example:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://wiki.dreamhost.com/KB_/_Email_/_POP3/IMAP/SMTP_Servers#Does_my_ISP_block_port_25.3F&quot;&gt;http://wiki.dreamhost.com/KB_/&lt;em&gt;Email&lt;/em&gt;/_POP3/IMA...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Cheers.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blocking port 25 is definitely a common practive, Tim. See, for example:<br /><br /><a href="http://wiki.dreamhost.com/KB_/_Email_/_POP3/IMAP/SMTP_Servers#Does_my_ISP_block_port_25.3F"></a><a href="http://wiki.dreamhost.com/KB_/" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.dreamhost.com/KB_/</a><em>Email</em>/_POP3/IMA&#8230;<br /><br />Cheers.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chuck Jackson</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-39878</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-39878</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I believe blocking port 25 is a common practive .  I think that the Canadian antispam commission of a few years ago &lt;b&gt; recommended&lt;/b&gt; it.  Given that ther is an alternate port for the same function (except authenticated) every ISP should block port 25.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Chuck&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe blocking port 25 is a common practive .  I think that the Canadian antispam commission of a few years ago <b> recommended</b> it.  Given that ther is an alternate port for the same function (except authenticated) every ISP should block port 25.</p>

<p>Chuck</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chuck Jackson</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/comment-page-1/#comment-47607</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2007/11/15/smtp-blocking/#comment-47607</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I believe blocking port 25 is a common practive .  I think that the Canadian antispam commission of a few years ago &lt;b&gt; recommended&lt;/b&gt; it.  Given that ther is an alternate port for the same function (except authenticated) every ISP should block port 25.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Chuck&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe blocking port 25 is a common practive .  I think that the Canadian antispam commission of a few years ago <b> recommended</b> it.  Given that ther is an alternate port for the same function (except authenticated) every ISP should block port 25.<br /><br />Chuck</p>]]></content:encoded>
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