Comments on: Geek Protectionism http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/ Keeping politicians' hands off the Net & everything else related to technology Fri, 25 May 2012 18:27:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-37329 MikeT Wed, 28 Feb 2007 12:33:36 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-37329 <p>Having better managers is a sort of hypothetical thing, and it's not a stretch to say that most technical employees would make good managers. Most employees do not make good managers. A good manager is, by definition, like a good engineer, more of a rarity than a run-of-the-mill manager. Of course, the problem with the H1B is that it brings workers over here without any right of movement between jobs, allowing them to be abused. I don't think it'd hurt the wages at all, if the average H1B worker could leave his job for a better paying one like any American can. I don't think most employers would like the H1B visa anymore if it gave the worker full autonomy as that would make them have to pay prevailing wages no matter what.</p> Having better managers is a sort of hypothetical thing, and it’s not a stretch to say that most technical employees would make good managers. Most employees do not make good managers. A good manager is, by definition, like a good engineer, more of a rarity than a run-of-the-mill manager. Of course, the problem with the H1B is that it brings workers over here without any right of movement between jobs, allowing them to be abused. I don’t think it’d hurt the wages at all, if the average H1B worker could leave his job for a better paying one like any American can. I don’t think most employers would like the H1B visa anymore if it gave the worker full autonomy as that would make them have to pay prevailing wages no matter what.

]]> By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-54030 MikeT Wed, 28 Feb 2007 12:33:36 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-54030 <p>Having better managers is a sort of hypothetical thing, and it's not a stretch to say that most technical employees would make good managers. Most employees do not make good managers. A good manager is, by definition, like a good engineer, more of a rarity than a run-of-the-mill manager. Of course, the problem with the H1B is that it brings workers over here without any right of movement between jobs, allowing them to be abused. I don't think it'd hurt the wages at all, if the average H1B worker could leave his job for a better paying one like any American can. I don't think most employers would like the H1B visa anymore if it gave the worker full autonomy as that would make them have to pay prevailing wages no matter what.</p> Having better managers is a sort of hypothetical thing, and it’s not a stretch to say that most technical employees would make good managers. Most employees do not make good managers. A good manager is, by definition, like a good engineer, more of a rarity than a run-of-the-mill manager. Of course, the problem with the H1B is that it brings workers over here without any right of movement between jobs, allowing them to be abused. I don’t think it’d hurt the wages at all, if the average H1B worker could leave his job for a better paying one like any American can. I don’t think most employers would like the H1B visa anymore if it gave the worker full autonomy as that would make them have to pay prevailing wages no matter what.

]]> By: Tim Lee http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-37328 Tim Lee Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:45:31 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-37328 <p>Mike, I don't think there's a coherent decision there. Having better managers means that companies do a better job of assigning programmers to projects where their talents will be used efficiently. It also makes it more likely that once new technology is developed, it will be deployed in a way that as many people as possible are able to benefit from it. There are of course some managers who add little or no value to the high-tech industry, but there are others that can create a tremendous amount of value. Whatever else you might say about the guy, I don't think anyone would claim it was a coincidence that Apple became a lot more profitable after Steve Jobs came back to the company.</p> Mike, I don’t think there’s a coherent decision there. Having better managers means that companies do a better job of assigning programmers to projects where their talents will be used efficiently. It also makes it more likely that once new technology is developed, it will be deployed in a way that as many people as possible are able to benefit from it. There are of course some managers who add little or no value to the high-tech industry, but there are others that can create a tremendous amount of value. Whatever else you might say about the guy, I don’t think anyone would claim it was a coincidence that Apple became a lot more profitable after Steve Jobs came back to the company.

]]> By: Tim Lee http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-54029 Tim Lee Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:45:31 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-54029 <p>Mike, I don't think there's a coherent decision there. Having better managers means that companies do a better job of assigning programmers to projects where their talents will be used efficiently. It also makes it more likely that once new technology is developed, it will be deployed in a way that as many people as possible are able to benefit from it. There are of course some managers who add little or no value to the high-tech industry, but there are others that can create a tremendous amount of value. Whatever else you might say about the guy, I don't think anyone would claim it was a coincidence that Apple became a lot more profitable after Steve Jobs came back to the company.</p> Mike, I don’t think there’s a coherent decision there. Having better managers means that companies do a better job of assigning programmers to projects where their talents will be used efficiently. It also makes it more likely that once new technology is developed, it will be deployed in a way that as many people as possible are able to benefit from it. There are of course some managers who add little or no value to the high-tech industry, but there are others that can create a tremendous amount of value. Whatever else you might say about the guy, I don’t think anyone would claim it was a coincidence that Apple became a lot more profitable after Steve Jobs came back to the company.

]]> By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-37327 MikeT Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:32:17 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-37327 <p>The only good examples are professions or jobs that produce wealth, and not even those that manage it per se. While business schools do have some programs that are good for the economy, such as accounting, much of what they put out is semi-useless to the economy. It's more of a burden than a benefit. I'd put most of the people that end up becoming corporate bureaucrats into that category. You want most Americans to take up jobs that make products or deliver services, not ones that manage those who do.</p> The only good examples are professions or jobs that produce wealth, and not even those that manage it per se. While business schools do have some programs that are good for the economy, such as accounting, much of what they put out is semi-useless to the economy. It’s more of a burden than a benefit. I’d put most of the people that end up becoming corporate bureaucrats into that category. You want most Americans to take up jobs that make products or deliver services, not ones that manage those who do.

]]> By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-54028 MikeT Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:32:17 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-54028 <p>The only good examples are professions or jobs that produce wealth, and not even those that manage it per se. While business schools do have some programs that are good for the economy, such as accounting, much of what they put out is semi-useless to the economy. It's more of a burden than a benefit. I'd put most of the people that end up becoming corporate bureaucrats into that category. You want most Americans to take up jobs that make products or deliver services, not ones that manage those who do.</p> The only good examples are professions or jobs that produce wealth, and not even those that manage it per se. While business schools do have some programs that are good for the economy, such as accounting, much of what they put out is semi-useless to the economy. It’s more of a burden than a benefit. I’d put most of the people that end up becoming corporate bureaucrats into that category. You want most Americans to take up jobs that make products or deliver services, not ones that manage those who do.

]]> By: Tim Lee http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-37326 Tim Lee Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:13:47 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-37326 <p>Good point. Lawyers probably aren't the best example.</p> Good point. Lawyers probably aren’t the best example.

]]> By: Tim Lee http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-54027 Tim Lee Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:13:47 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-54027 <p>Good point. Lawyers probably aren't the best example.</p> Good point. Lawyers probably aren’t the best example.

]]> By: eric http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-37325 eric Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:04:30 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-37325 <p>"What I suspect he means is that American workers who would have become computer programmers at $100,000 have more lucrative options once the salary drops to $80,000. Maybe more of them go to law school or business school."</p> <p>So, you think programmers becoming lawyers will make society more productive? That's a good one, Tim.</p> “What I suspect he means is that American workers who would have become computer programmers at $100,000 have more lucrative options once the salary drops to $80,000. Maybe more of them go to law school or business school.”

So, you think programmers becoming lawyers will make society more productive? That’s a good one, Tim.

]]> By: eric http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-54026 eric Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:04:30 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-54026 <p>"What I suspect he means is that American workers who would have become computer programmers at $100,000 have more lucrative options once the salary drops to $80,000. Maybe more of them go to law school or business school."<br><br>So, you think programmers becoming lawyers will make society more productive? That's a good one, Tim.</p> “What I suspect he means is that American workers who would have become computer programmers at $100,000 have more lucrative options once the salary drops to $80,000. Maybe more of them go to law school or business school.”

So, you think programmers becoming lawyers will make society more productive? That’s a good one, Tim.

]]> By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-37324 MikeT Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:34:54 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-37324 <p>Doh! I meant citizenship track. Must... get... coffee :-D</p> Doh! I meant citizenship track. Must… get… coffee :-D

]]> By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-54025 MikeT Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:34:54 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-54025 <p>Doh! I meant citizenship track. Must... get... coffee :-D</p> Doh! I meant citizenship track. Must… get… coffee :-D

]]> By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-37323 MikeT Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:34:16 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-37323 <p>That said, I have no problem with the H1B system being expanded, provided that it is being expanded to accommodate all technical professions, not just flood the software engineering profession. It should not become a cheap labor ticket for Billy Boy. It should actually be used to fill labor needs across the board for <em>all</em> technical industries in America. And yes, I think it should have an immigration track.</p> That said, I have no problem with the H1B system being expanded, provided that it is being expanded to accommodate all technical professions, not just flood the software engineering profession. It should not become a cheap labor ticket for Billy Boy. It should actually be used to fill labor needs across the board for all technical industries in America. And yes, I think it should have an immigration track.

]]> By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-54024 MikeT Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:34:16 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-54024 <p>That said, I have no problem with the H1B system being expanded, provided that it is being expanded to accommodate all technical professions, not just flood the software engineering profession. It should not become a cheap labor ticket for Billy Boy. It should actually be used to fill labor needs across the board for <em>all</em> technical industries in America. And yes, I think it should have an immigration track.</p> That said, I have no problem with the H1B system being expanded, provided that it is being expanded to accommodate all technical professions, not just flood the software engineering profession. It should not become a cheap labor ticket for Billy Boy. It should actually be used to fill labor needs across the board for all technical industries in America. And yes, I think it should have an immigration track.

]]> By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-37322 MikeT Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:32:19 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-37322 <p>I see nothing unfair with Western nations trying to keep their demographics stable. It is our right to determine how many foreigners can come here, and that is not without consequence. Of course, there would be a lot more sympathy in the general public for expanding the H1B program and throwing in a solid citizenship track if open borders libertarians and their ilk (I'm a libertarian, but not in favor of open immigration for reasons stated <a href="http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com/2006/04/open_borders_is_a_mockery_of_i.php" rel="nofollow">here</a>) would oppose open borders for every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to come here to work. If libertarians would recognize that low and unskilled workers are a risky bunch to be allowing to come here without the complete dismantling of the welfare system, something positive might be done about all of this.</p> I see nothing unfair with Western nations trying to keep their demographics stable. It is our right to determine how many foreigners can come here, and that is not without consequence. Of course, there would be a lot more sympathy in the general public for expanding the H1B program and throwing in a solid citizenship track if open borders libertarians and their ilk (I’m a libertarian, but not in favor of open immigration for reasons stated here) would oppose open borders for every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to come here to work. If libertarians would recognize that low and unskilled workers are a risky bunch to be allowing to come here without the complete dismantling of the welfare system, something positive might be done about all of this.

]]> By: MikeT http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/comment-page-1/#comment-54023 MikeT Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:32:19 +0000 http://techliberation.com/2007/02/27/geek-protectionism/#comment-54023 <p>I see nothing unfair with Western nations trying to keep their demographics stable. It is our right to determine how many foreigners can come here, and that is not without consequence. Of course, there would be a lot more sympathy in the general public for expanding the H1B program and throwing in a solid citizenship track if open borders libertarians and their ilk (I'm a libertarian, but not in favor of open immigration for reasons stated <a href="http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com/2006/04/open_borders_is_a_mockery_of_i.php" rel="nofollow">here</a>) would oppose open borders for every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to come here to work. If libertarians would recognize that low and unskilled workers are a risky bunch to be allowing to come here without the complete dismantling of the welfare system, something positive might be done about all of this.</p> I see nothing unfair with Western nations trying to keep their demographics stable. It is our right to determine how many foreigners can come here, and that is not without consequence. Of course, there would be a lot more sympathy in the general public for expanding the H1B program and throwing in a solid citizenship track if open borders libertarians and their ilk (I’m a libertarian, but not in favor of open immigration for reasons stated here) would oppose open borders for every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to come here to work. If libertarians would recognize that low and unskilled workers are a risky bunch to be allowing to come here without the complete dismantling of the welfare system, something positive might be done about all of this.

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