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	<title>Comments on: The Community Shrugged</title>
	<atom:link href="http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/</link>
	<description>Keeping politicians&#039; hands off the Net &#38; everything else related to technology</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36115</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36115</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don, that just tells me that Red Hat should not be calling the MSFT deal an &quot;innovation tax&quot; and that other Linux distros should get practical.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for developers, I don&#039;t see the deal affecting them that much; (someone clarify this) but as I understand it, a developer would be giving more value to consumers of Novell than those of other Linux entities if they contribute to multiple distros. If anything, the deal gives developers more options by which to release their work.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, that just tells me that Red Hat should not be calling the MSFT deal an &#8220;innovation tax&#8221; and that other Linux distros should get practical.</p>

<p>As for developers, I don&#8217;t see the deal affecting them that much; (someone clarify this) but as I understand it, a developer would be giving more value to consumers of Novell than those of other Linux entities if they contribute to multiple distros. If anything, the deal gives developers more options by which to release their work.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53256</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53256</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don, that just tells me that Red Hat should not be calling the MSFT deal an &quot;innovation tax&quot; and that other Linux distros should get practical.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for developers, I don&#039;t see the deal affecting them that much; (someone clarify this) but as I understand it, a developer would be giving more value to consumers of Novell than those of other Linux entities if they contribute to multiple distros. If anything, the deal gives developers more options by which to release their work.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, that just tells me that Red Hat should not be calling the MSFT deal an &#8220;innovation tax&#8221; and that other Linux distros should get practical.<br /><br />As for developers, I don&#8217;t see the deal affecting them that much; (someone clarify this) but as I understand it, a developer would be giving more value to consumers of Novell than those of other Linux entities if they contribute to multiple distros. If anything, the deal gives developers more options by which to release their work.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Don Marti</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36114</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Marti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36114</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Noel, how could this deal be in the interest of developers?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you&#039;re a developer and write a program, and the only people who can legally use it are those who buy through Novell, that puts you in a pretty weak negotiating position with Novell.  If a customer can use your program with a support contract from Red Hat, Novell, Oracle, or Canonical, then not only does the customer have more negotiating power when buying services, you as the developer have more negotiating power when selling your services.  From a developer&#039;s point of view, it&#039;s rational to use the GPL to enforce a policy of &quot;multiple companies can sell support for my work, or no one can&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noel, how could this deal be in the interest of developers?</p>

<p>If you&#8217;re a developer and write a program, and the only people who can legally use it are those who buy through Novell, that puts you in a pretty weak negotiating position with Novell.  If a customer can use your program with a support contract from Red Hat, Novell, Oracle, or Canonical, then not only does the customer have more negotiating power when buying services, you as the developer have more negotiating power when selling your services.  From a developer&#8217;s point of view, it&#8217;s rational to use the GPL to enforce a policy of &#8220;multiple companies can sell support for my work, or no one can&#8221;.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Don Marti</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53255</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Marti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53255</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Noel, how could this deal be in the interest of developers?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you&#039;re a developer and write a program, and the only people who can legally use it are those who buy through Novell, that puts you in a pretty weak negotiating position with Novell.  If a customer can use your program with a support contract from Red Hat, Novell, Oracle, or Canonical, then not only does the customer have more negotiating power when buying services, you as the developer have more negotiating power when selling your services.  From a developer&#039;s point of view, it&#039;s rational to use the GPL to enforce a policy of &quot;multiple companies can sell support for my work, or no one can&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noel, how could this deal be in the interest of developers?<br /><br />If you&#8217;re a developer and write a program, and the only people who can legally use it are those who buy through Novell, that puts you in a pretty weak negotiating position with Novell.  If a customer can use your program with a support contract from Red Hat, Novell, Oracle, or Canonical, then not only does the customer have more negotiating power when buying services, you as the developer have more negotiating power when selling your services.  From a developer&#8217;s point of view, it&#8217;s rational to use the GPL to enforce a policy of &#8220;multiple companies can sell support for my work, or no one can&#8221;.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Don Marti</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36113</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Marti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36113</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;David, you would be right in the absence of software patents.  Where US-style software patents are in force, a developer who releases under a license without a patent clause -- like the BSD license -- can lose the rights to use his or her own software because of others&#039; patent claims.  See, for example, BSD Compression, RFC 1977.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There is one BSD-like license with a patent clause -- Larry Rosen&#039;s Academic Free License.  You might want to consider that instead of the original BSD license as long as software patents are in force.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you would be right in the absence of software patents.  Where US-style software patents are in force, a developer who releases under a license without a patent clause &#8212; like the BSD license &#8212; can lose the rights to use his or her own software because of others&#8217; patent claims.  See, for example, BSD Compression, RFC 1977.</p>

<p>There is one BSD-like license with a patent clause &#8212; Larry Rosen&#8217;s Academic Free License.  You might want to consider that instead of the original BSD license as long as software patents are in force.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Don Marti</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53254</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Marti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53254</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;David, you would be right in the absence of software patents.  Where US-style software patents are in force, a developer who releases under a license without a patent clause -- like the BSD license -- can lose the rights to use his or her own software because of others&#039; patent claims.  See, for example, BSD Compression, RFC 1977.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is one BSD-like license with a patent clause -- Larry Rosen&#039;s Academic Free License.  You might want to consider that instead of the original BSD license as long as software patents are in force.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you would be right in the absence of software patents.  Where US-style software patents are in force, a developer who releases under a license without a patent clause &#8212; like the BSD license &#8212; can lose the rights to use his or her own software because of others&#8217; patent claims.  See, for example, BSD Compression, RFC 1977.<br /><br />There is one BSD-like license with a patent clause &#8212; Larry Rosen&#8217;s Academic Free License.  You might want to consider that instead of the original BSD license as long as software patents are in force.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36112</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36112</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tim, I believe its in the interest of Novell&#039;s customers, as well as developers, that the deal w/ MSFT was signed.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The GPL is a very inflexible license. FOSS supporters talk about interoperability, and the need for more legal certainty in FOSS development, but they fall at their own swords when it comes to any practical solution.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you&#039;re out of the big tent, don&#039;t complain that you &lt;em&gt;choose&lt;/em&gt; to be left in the rain.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, I believe its in the interest of Novell&#8217;s customers, as well as developers, that the deal w/ MSFT was signed.</p>

<p>The GPL is a very inflexible license. FOSS supporters talk about interoperability, and the need for more legal certainty in FOSS development, but they fall at their own swords when it comes to any practical solution.</p>

<p>If you&#8217;re out of the big tent, don&#8217;t complain that you <em>choose</em> to be left in the rain.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53253</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53253</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tim, I believe its in the interest of Novell&#039;s customers, as well as developers, that the deal w/ MSFT was signed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The GPL is a very inflexible license. FOSS supporters talk about interoperability, and the need for more legal certainty in FOSS development, but they fall at their own swords when it comes to any practical solution.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you&#039;re out of the big tent, don&#039;t complain that you &lt;em&gt;choose&lt;/em&gt; to be left in the rain.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, I believe its in the interest of Novell&#8217;s customers, as well as developers, that the deal w/ MSFT was signed.<br /><br />The GPL is a very inflexible license. FOSS supporters talk about interoperability, and the need for more legal certainty in FOSS development, but they fall at their own swords when it comes to any practical solution.<br /><br />If you&#8217;re out of the big tent, don&#8217;t complain that you <em>choose</em> to be left in the rain.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Doug Lay</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36111</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Lay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36111</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Anyone want to take bets on whether this deal survives til the end of the week?  I&#039;ll wager a freshly-burned set of CentOS disks that the deal is scuttled by Black Friday.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone want to take bets on whether this deal survives til the end of the week?  I&#8217;ll wager a freshly-burned set of CentOS disks that the deal is scuttled by Black Friday.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Doug Lay</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53252</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Lay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53252</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Anyone want to take bets on whether this deal survives til the end of the week?  I&#039;ll wager a freshly-burned set of CentOS disks that the deal is scuttled by Black Friday.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone want to take bets on whether this deal survives til the end of the week?  I&#8217;ll wager a freshly-burned set of CentOS disks that the deal is scuttled by Black Friday.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim Lee</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36110</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36110</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OK, so then don&#039;t you think it violates the spirit of the GPL to sign an agreement with Microsoft shielding your own customers (but not customers of other GPL distributors) from software patent liability?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so then don&#8217;t you think it violates the spirit of the GPL to sign an agreement with Microsoft shielding your own customers (but not customers of other GPL distributors) from software patent liability?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim Lee</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53251</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53251</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OK, so then don&#039;t you think it violates the spirit of the GPL to sign an agreement with Microsoft shielding your own customers (but not customers of other GPL distributors) from software patent liability?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so then don&#8217;t you think it violates the spirit of the GPL to sign an agreement with Microsoft shielding your own customers (but not customers of other GPL distributors) from software patent liability?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36109</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36109</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, I read that section as I just re-stated to you. The difference between &quot;GPL licensors/licensors&quot; and simply &quot;third parties&quot; is pretty big. If you hold the latter accountable for the goals of the GPL, then you&#039;re implicating those who never even signed on to the license.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I read that section as I just re-stated to you. The difference between &#8220;GPL licensors/licensors&#8221; and simply &#8220;third parties&#8221; is pretty big. If you hold the latter accountable for the goals of the GPL, then you&#8217;re implicating those who never even signed on to the license.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53250</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53250</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, I read that section as I just re-stated to you. The difference between &quot;GPL licensors/licensors&quot; and simply &quot;third parties&quot; is pretty big. If you hold the latter accountable for the goals of the GPL, then you&#039;re implicating those who never even signed on to the license.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I read that section as I just re-stated to you. The difference between &#8220;GPL licensors/licensors&#8221; and simply &#8220;third parties&#8221; is pretty big. If you hold the latter accountable for the goals of the GPL, then you&#8217;re implicating those who never even signed on to the license.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36108</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36108</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Noel: yes, that&#039;s what I meant. Do you read that section of the GPL differently?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noel: yes, that&#8217;s what I meant. Do you read that section of the GPL differently?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53249</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53249</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Noel: yes, that&#039;s what I meant. Do you read that section of the GPL differently?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noel: yes, that&#8217;s what I meant. Do you read that section of the GPL differently?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36107</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36107</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;DO you mean &quot;over other GPL licensors/licensees with respect to patents.&quot; Just trying to clarify.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DO you mean &#8220;over other GPL licensors/licensees with respect to patents.&#8221; Just trying to clarify.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53248</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53248</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;DO you mean &quot;over other GPL licensors/licensees with respect to patents.&quot; Just trying to clarify.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DO you mean &#8220;over other GPL licensors/licensees with respect to patents.&#8221; Just trying to clarify.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36106</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36106</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Tim, do you read the GPL as an isolationist doctrine, meaning that technologies and business that leverage it can never work with IP firms.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote. I believe that the GPL means what it says:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;If a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think that&#039;s pretty clear. GPL-using companies can work with &quot;IP firms,&quot; they just can&#039;t sign licensing agreements that privilege themselves (or their customers)  over third parties with respect to patents.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Tim, do you read the GPL as an isolationist doctrine, meaning that technologies and business that leverage it can never work with IP firms.</i></p>

<p>I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote. I believe that the GPL means what it says:</p>

<p>&#8220;If a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.&#8221;</p>

<p>I think that&#8217;s pretty clear. GPL-using companies can work with &#8220;IP firms,&#8221; they just can&#8217;t sign licensing agreements that privilege themselves (or their customers)  over third parties with respect to patents.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53247</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53247</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Tim, do you read the GPL as an isolationist doctrine, meaning that technologies and business that leverage it can never work with IP firms.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote. I believe that the GPL means what it says:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;If a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think that&#039;s pretty clear. GPL-using companies can work with &quot;IP firms,&quot; they just can&#039;t sign licensing agreements that privilege themselves (or their customers)  over third parties with respect to patents.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Tim, do you read the GPL as an isolationist doctrine, meaning that technologies and business that leverage it can never work with IP firms.</i><br /><br />I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote. I believe that the GPL means what it says:<br /><br />&#8220;If a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.&#8221;<br /><br />I think that&#8217;s pretty clear. GPL-using companies can work with &#8220;IP firms,&#8221; they just can&#8217;t sign licensing agreements that privilege themselves (or their customers)  over third parties with respect to patents.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36105</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36105</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;If you do not share the view of the FSF that the public has a right to liberty, a right to build upon public works, then certainly you would not use the GPL.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I should amend that to be &quot;you would not necessarily use the GPL&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;
In some cases people use the GPL without consideration of ethics, e.g. simply because they find its assurance of source code visibility facilitates open and collaborative development.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>If you do not share the view of the FSF that the public has a right to liberty, a right to build upon public works, then certainly you would not use the GPL.</em></p>

<p>I should amend that to be &#8220;you would not necessarily use the GPL&#8221;.</p>

<p>
In some cases people use the GPL without consideration of ethics, e.g. simply because they find its assurance of source code visibility facilitates open and collaborative development.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53246</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53246</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;If you do not share the view of the FSF that the public has a right to liberty, a right to build upon public works, then certainly you would not use the GPL.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I should amend that to be &quot;you would not necessarily use the GPL&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;In some cases people use the GPL without consideration of ethics, e.g. simply because they find its assurance of source code visibility facilitates open and collaborative development.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>If you do not share the view of the FSF that the public has a right to liberty, a right to build upon public works, then certainly you would not use the GPL.</em></p>

<p><br /></p>

<p>I should amend that to be &#8220;you would not necessarily use the GPL&#8221;.</p>

<p><br />In some cases people use the GPL without consideration of ethics, e.g. simply because they find its assurance of source code visibility facilitates open and collaborative development.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36104</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36104</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;David, your &#039;freedom&#039; to suspend the public&#039;s liberty to use works you deliver to the public is a perversion of the word &#039;freedom&#039;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You are granted an unethical privilege to a monopoly, to a suspension of the public&#039;s liberty. Either you can unethically exploit this suspension, or you can ethically nullify it with the GPL.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Don&#039;t forget you are also included as a member of the public you can liberate.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you publish using the BSD you will not necessarily be free to build upon other people&#039;s published derivatives of your code.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;With the GPL you have restored your own liberty (granted to yourself as a member of the public, by yourself as the copyright holder).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you do not share the view of the FSF that the public has a right to liberty, a right to build upon public works, then certainly you would not use the GPL.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There may be encouragement to adopt a more ethical approach to publishing, but this is not force, it is persuasion through argument and the demonstration of the viability and success of an emancipated public.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That said, your privilege to suspend the public&#039;s liberty may not last forever - and its effectiveness may already be insignificant.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, your &#8216;freedom&#8217; to suspend the public&#8217;s liberty to use works you deliver to the public is a perversion of the word &#8216;freedom&#8217;.</p>

<p>You are granted an unethical privilege to a monopoly, to a suspension of the public&#8217;s liberty. Either you can unethically exploit this suspension, or you can ethically nullify it with the GPL.</p>

<p>Don&#8217;t forget you are also included as a member of the public you can liberate.</p>

<p>If you publish using the BSD you will not necessarily be free to build upon other people&#8217;s published derivatives of your code.</p>

<p>With the GPL you have restored your own liberty (granted to yourself as a member of the public, by yourself as the copyright holder).</p>

<p>If you do not share the view of the FSF that the public has a right to liberty, a right to build upon public works, then certainly you would not use the GPL.</p>

<p>There may be encouragement to adopt a more ethical approach to publishing, but this is not force, it is persuasion through argument and the demonstration of the viability and success of an emancipated public.</p>

<p>That said, your privilege to suspend the public&#8217;s liberty may not last forever &#8211; and its effectiveness may already be insignificant.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53245</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53245</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;David, your &#039;freedom&#039; to suspend the public&#039;s liberty to use works you deliver to the public is a perversion of the word &#039;freedom&#039;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You are granted an unethical privilege to a monopoly, to a suspension of the public&#039;s liberty. Either you can unethically exploit this suspension, or you can ethically nullify it with the GPL.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Don&#039;t forget you are also included as a member of the public you can liberate.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you publish using the BSD you will not necessarily be free to build upon other people&#039;s published derivatives of your code.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;With the GPL you have restored your own liberty (granted to yourself as a member of the public, by yourself as the copyright holder).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you do not share the view of the FSF that the public has a right to liberty, a right to build upon public works, then certainly you would not use the GPL.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There may be encouragement to adopt a more ethical approach to publishing, but this is not force, it is persuasion through argument and the demonstration of the viability and success of an emancipated public.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That said, your privilege to suspend the public&#039;s liberty may not last forever - and its effectiveness may already be insignificant.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, your &#8216;freedom&#8217; to suspend the public&#8217;s liberty to use works you deliver to the public is a perversion of the word &#8216;freedom&#8217;.<br /><br />You are granted an unethical privilege to a monopoly, to a suspension of the public&#8217;s liberty. Either you can unethically exploit this suspension, or you can ethically nullify it with the GPL.<br /><br />Don&#8217;t forget you are also included as a member of the public you can liberate.<br /><br />If you publish using the BSD you will not necessarily be free to build upon other people&#8217;s published derivatives of your code.<br /><br />With the GPL you have restored your own liberty (granted to yourself as a member of the public, by yourself as the copyright holder).<br /><br />If you do not share the view of the FSF that the public has a right to liberty, a right to build upon public works, then certainly you would not use the GPL.<br /><br />There may be encouragement to adopt a more ethical approach to publishing, but this is not force, it is persuasion through argument and the demonstration of the viability and success of an emancipated public.<br /><br />That said, your privilege to suspend the public&#8217;s liberty may not last forever &#8211; and its effectiveness may already be insignificant.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36103</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 05:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36103</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tim, do you read the GPL as an isolationist doctrine, meaning that technologies and business that leverage it can never work with IP firms.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t think you&#039;re describing Galt&#039;s Gulch with the GPL and its community. You&#039;re talking about pouting FOSS companies that left outside the big tent.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, do you read the GPL as an isolationist doctrine, meaning that technologies and business that leverage it can never work with IP firms.</p>

<p>I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re describing Galt&#8217;s Gulch with the GPL and its community. You&#8217;re talking about pouting FOSS companies that left outside the big tent.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Noel Le</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53244</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 05:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53244</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tim, do you read the GPL as an isolationist doctrine, meaning that technologies and business that leverage it can never work with IP firms.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t think you&#039;re describing Galt&#039;s Gulch with the GPL and its community. You&#039;re talking about pouting FOSS companies that left outside the big tent.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, do you read the GPL as an isolationist doctrine, meaning that technologies and business that leverage it can never work with IP firms.<br /><br />I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re describing Galt&#8217;s Gulch with the GPL and its community. You&#8217;re talking about pouting FOSS companies that left outside the big tent.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David McElroy</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36102</link>
		<dc:creator>David McElroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 04:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36102</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This isn&#039;t the main point of this discussion, but I&#039;d argue quite strongly that the GPL doesn&#039;t give anyone &quot;freedom,&quot; but rather limits people&#039;s freedom to do as they please with the Linux code. The BSD license seems to be much more truly free. With the GPL, you are forced to make your changes available to the public as source. With BSD, you can do whatever the heck you want with the code. You can include it in your own product without limitations on disclosing the source and without limitations on the license you have to use for YOUR code. The GPL isn&#039;t really about freedom. It&#039;s about forcing the users of GPL-licensed software to adhere to the views of the Free Software Foundation. The BSD license pretty much just says, &quot;Here&#039;s the code. Do with it what you want, without restrictions.&quot; That seems MUCH more &quot;free&quot; to me.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t the main point of this discussion, but I&#8217;d argue quite strongly that the GPL doesn&#8217;t give anyone &#8220;freedom,&#8221; but rather limits people&#8217;s freedom to do as they please with the Linux code. The BSD license seems to be much more truly free. With the GPL, you are forced to make your changes available to the public as source. With BSD, you can do whatever the heck you want with the code. You can include it in your own product without limitations on disclosing the source and without limitations on the license you have to use for YOUR code. The GPL isn&#8217;t really about freedom. It&#8217;s about forcing the users of GPL-licensed software to adhere to the views of the Free Software Foundation. The BSD license pretty much just says, &#8220;Here&#8217;s the code. Do with it what you want, without restrictions.&#8221; That seems MUCH more &#8220;free&#8221; to me.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David McElroy</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53243</link>
		<dc:creator>David McElroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 04:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53243</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This isn&#039;t the main point of this discussion, but I&#039;d argue quite strongly that the GPL doesn&#039;t give anyone &quot;freedom,&quot; but rather limits people&#039;s freedom to do as they please with the Linux code. The BSD license seems to be much more truly free. With the GPL, you are forced to make your changes available to the public as source. With BSD, you can do whatever the heck you want with the code. You can include it in your own product without limitations on disclosing the source and without limitations on the license you have to use for YOUR code. The GPL isn&#039;t really about freedom. It&#039;s about forcing the users of GPL-licensed software to adhere to the views of the Free Software Foundation. The BSD license pretty much just says, &quot;Here&#039;s the code. Do with it what you want, without restrictions.&quot; That seems MUCH more &quot;free&quot; to me.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t the main point of this discussion, but I&#8217;d argue quite strongly that the GPL doesn&#8217;t give anyone &#8220;freedom,&#8221; but rather limits people&#8217;s freedom to do as they please with the Linux code. The BSD license seems to be much more truly free. With the GPL, you are forced to make your changes available to the public as source. With BSD, you can do whatever the heck you want with the code. You can include it in your own product without limitations on disclosing the source and without limitations on the license you have to use for YOUR code. The GPL isn&#8217;t really about freedom. It&#8217;s about forcing the users of GPL-licensed software to adhere to the views of the Free Software Foundation. The BSD license pretty much just says, &#8220;Here&#8217;s the code. Do with it what you want, without restrictions.&#8221; That seems MUCH more &#8220;free&#8221; to me.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: enigma_foundry</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-36101</link>
		<dc:creator>enigma_foundry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 03:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-36101</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I suspect &quot;collective opinion of community members&quot; is a woeful understatement. That, and many multi-billion $ businesses built with the assumption that the GPL, Linux and other GPL&#039;d software are legally sound.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well, there we go again trying to make things narrow, trying to stay within our own little areas of expertise.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s one of the things I really like about Tim (except when he disagrees with me on net neutrailty of course) is that his approach is cross -disciplinary.  Yes, the GPL is a legal document, but it is much more than that.  Think of it as a totem, around which a community has grown.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It has it&#039;s own network, its own plausable premise , and it&#039;s own goals.  It understands the limits that exist because of the social economic matrix that it finds itself embedded within.  It will quite rightly resist attempts to weaken it, which can only be done by taking away primary liberties and ownership rights, because that is what it is built on.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I suspect &#8220;collective opinion of community members&#8221; is a woeful understatement. That, and many multi-billion $ businesses built with the assumption that the GPL, Linux and other GPL&#8217;d software are legally sound.</i></p>

<p>Well, there we go again trying to make things narrow, trying to stay within our own little areas of expertise.</p>

<p>That&#8217;s one of the things I really like about Tim (except when he disagrees with me on net neutrailty of course) is that his approach is cross -disciplinary.  Yes, the GPL is a legal document, but it is much more than that.  Think of it as a totem, around which a community has grown.</p>

<p>It has it&#8217;s own network, its own plausable premise , and it&#8217;s own goals.  It understands the limits that exist because of the social economic matrix that it finds itself embedded within.  It will quite rightly resist attempts to weaken it, which can only be done by taking away primary liberties and ownership rights, because that is what it is built on.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eee_eff</title>
		<link>http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/comment-page-1/#comment-53242</link>
		<dc:creator>eee_eff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 03:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techliberation.com/2006/11/20/the-community-shrugged/#comment-53242</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I suspect &quot;collective opinion of community members&quot; is a woeful understatement. That, and many multi-billion $ businesses built with the assumption that the GPL, Linux and other GPL&#039;d software are legally sound.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well, there we go again trying to make things narrow, trying to stay within our own little areas of expertise.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s one of the things I really like about Tim (except when he disagrees with me on net neutrailty of course) is that his approach is cross -disciplinary.  Yes, the GPL is a legal document, but it is much more than that.  Think of it as a totem, around which a community has grown.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It has it&#039;s own network, its own plausable premise , and it&#039;s own goals.  It understands the limits that exist because of the social economic matrix that it finds itself embedded within.  It will quite rightly resist attempts to weaken it, which can only be done by taking away primary liberties and ownership rights, because that is what it is built on.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I suspect &#8220;collective opinion of community members&#8221; is a woeful understatement. That, and many multi-billion $ businesses built with the assumption that the GPL, Linux and other GPL&#8217;d software are legally sound.</i><br /><br />Well, there we go again trying to make things narrow, trying to stay within our own little areas of expertise.<br /><br />That&#8217;s one of the things I really like about Tim (except when he disagrees with me on net neutrailty of course) is that his approach is cross -disciplinary.  Yes, the GPL is a legal document, but it is much more than that.  Think of it as a totem, around which a community has grown.<br /><br />It has it&#8217;s own network, its own plausable premise , and it&#8217;s own goals.  It understands the limits that exist because of the social economic matrix that it finds itself embedded within.  It will quite rightly resist attempts to weaken it, which can only be done by taking away primary liberties and ownership rights, because that is what it is built on.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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